| By Jason A. Churchill |  | By 12-06-2008 |
The Seattle Mariners need a shortstop. Sure, they have Yuniesky Betancourt on the roster, signed through 2011 with an option for 2012 at somewhat reasonable salaries, but the Cuban has been a rather large disappointment the past two years, having failed to improve at the plate and regressing in the field.Yes, the Mariners need an everyday second baseman, too, unless Jose Lopez makes significant defensive strides in 2009, but let's focus on shortstop instead of the numerous other areas the club must improve before they have a chance to contend again.
Considering the roster is void of strong defenders outside third baseman Adrian Beltre and outfielder Ichiro Suzuki, the club's shortstop must at least bring an average glove to the park every day. But the Mariners are certainly not in any position with their offensive roster to concede offense, either.
The free agent and trade market for shortstops is as thin as the Olsen twins on a crack binge, with Rafael Furcal and Orlando Cabrera the only starter-quality talents free to sign with any club, and the only trade-availables being the likes of Bobby Crosby, Jhonny Peralta and until the St. Louis Cardinals acquired him this week, Kahlil Greene, whom all possess major flaws ranging from risky injury histories, to poor defense to downright bad at the plate.
And the talk about Milwaukee's J.J. Hardy being traded, while sensible, isn't likely, and wouldn't be cheap if Doug Melvin decides to move his All-star shortstop.
This brings the conversation back to Furcal, who was negotiating with both the Oakland Athletics and San Francisco Giants as late as Monday, and now is left without any serious takers.
The Giants signed Edgar Renteria for two years and $18.5 million and the A's recently pulled out of the running after Furcal and agent Paul Kinzer rejected Oakland's four-year offer to the 31-year-old.
According to Kinzer, the four-year deal was what he and Furcal wanted, but the salary was for less than what Furcal made in Los Angeles last season, thus the rejection.
At 31, Furcal is a risk. He missed 125 games last season after back surgery, and a four-year contract takes him through age 35, when shortstops are typically second baseman, third baseman or outfielders, if they are still playing regularly at all.
For the Mariners, getting into talks of a four-year deal for Furcal isn't wise, knowing that he's seeking about $13 million per season. But what if the market is so dry that ultimately he's willing to accept a three-year deal in the $35-36 million neighborhood? Does he make sense for Seattle then?
Perhaps he does.
If such a stage occurs this winter, it would probably have to be after Christmas, when many clubs have headed in one direction or another, and the M's would have had a chance to make subsequent moves to warrant such a deal for Furcal.
Maybe the Mariners get together with the Florida Marlins for Jeremy Hermida, or with the Milwaukee Brewers for Prince Fielder. More likely scenarios include the rumors that the Mariners are interested in Jim Edmonds on a one-year deal and are seeking a right-handed hitting platoon partner for him, such as Brady Clark, Rocco Baldelli or Brian Anderson.
In any case, Furcal is probably a few years too old and a back injury too risky for a club in a short rebuilding phase to extend the kind of money he's asking for, but things can change, and in a hurry.
Jack Zduriencik could acquire a few key pieces - an athletic outfielder with power, a right-handed platoon partner for Russ Branyan, and maybe a proven left-on-left reliever - and all of a sudden Furcal looks like a good idea.
At the start of the offseason more than a month ago, it seemed as if the Mariners had no choice but to rebuild, avoiding the big-money free agents and pricey veteran acquisitions.
But if a few things fall their way, Seattle could wake up Christmas morning in a position to compete with the big boys over the next two "rebuilding" seasons.
Letting the market determine whether they can afford to be players in the Furcal, or even Orlando Hudson sweepstakes, is absolutely the right move. Adding a solid player up the middle neither blocks a younger player from receiving developmental time in the big leagues, nor does the salary hinder the club from other necessary transactions.
We all may pick up the newspaper or turn on Sportscenter tonight and learn that Furcal inked a deal with the New York Yankees or Mets to play second base, or with the A's or Rangers to play shortstop.
But we may not, too, and if enough time goes by, Kinzer and Furcal may fall into the laps of a lucky team like the Chicago Cubs, Detroit Tigers, or even the Seattle Mariners.
Notes: The M's have expressed interest in Milton Bradley, but are apparently unwilling to stretch any contract offer to four years... A few baseball sources have suggested to me that the idea of a Juan Pierre-Carlos Silva swap is not out of the question, nor is a similar deal with Jarrod Washburn and Julio Lugo. My question is, what about a Washburn-for-Andruw Jones deal? Or a Silva-for-Kosuke Fukudome deal, for that matter.
By the way, any trade of Adrian Beltre to Minnesota must include either Denard Span or Carlos Gomez... The J.J. Putz rumors are really hot right now, with the Mets, Brewers, Braves, Tigers and Blue Jays showing heavy interest.
The Tigers would have to part with top prospect Rick Porcello to land Putz, or some young talent from their 25-man roster, since the rest of their farm system is among the five or six worst in all of baseball.
The Mets, who are one of the two favorites to sign Raul Ibanez, along with the Cubs, simply don't have the pieces, either, unless Fernando Martinez is a part of the offer.
Milwaukee's system has the talent, but it's far-fetched to believe that Melvin would be willing to part with Alcides Escobar and Mat Gamel for a relief pitcher, and a healthy Putz carries too much value for the Mariners to accept second-tier talent in return. So, no Nelson-for-Putz cries, okay?
Atlanta is an interesting thought for Putz, and until today I hadn't heard them as being interested. But former M's right-hander Rafael Soriano is injury prone, and might ultimately be better suited for a setup role, anyway.
Putz is not expensive in terms of salary over the next two years, and Atlanta still has some young talent they can afford to part with, even after sending four prospects t the White Sox for Javier Vazquez.
If Atlanta is able to sign a starting pitcher off the market - A.J. Burnett, Derek Lowe, et al - Putz might top off a fantastic offseason in which Frank Wren and the Braves put themselves in serious World Series contention, and should be able to hold onto their two top prospects in the process, even if they make a deal for Putz.
Jason Heyward and Tommy Hanson are probably off limits, but the M's might be able to pry Jordan Schafer from Atlanta. Schafer would automatically become the club's top prospect and future center fielder, despite missing 50 games last season after being suspended for testing positive for a banned substance.
shortstops-and-short-hops:-furcal,-trades,-notes
Comments
The following 61 comment(s) for this article are shown below:
| 1. By: CrustyJuggler on 12-06-2008 18:20:51 Nice to hear some rumors! Personally I wouldn't touch Furcal with a 10 foot pole. He is sporadic and an injury risk. The fact he wants 13 mil over 4 years while not even playing most of last year is ridiculous. I say give Yuni another chance since he is working with Raul this offseason. Bradley is one of my favorite targets out there this year. If we could get him to DH full time, he has a much better chance of not getting hurt and putting up a monster year. Other than a DH on the free agent market, I don't see much else out there that could really benefit us long term. I think our big splash this year will be via trade and reading all the ramblings you laid out, its looking that way. MLBTRs had a writeup saying that the Twins turned the Rockies down when they offered Atkins for Slowey/Span. They also are rumored to be out of the running for Blake. Since Beltre is better than both those guys, I wonder if something with the Twins my get rekindled. With 4 opens spots on the 40-man, it should be an exciting winter meetings. |
| 2. By: Blowgun7 on 12-06-2008 18:35:42 My issue with Bradley is all based around Clement.. Can he catch 120 games? or will he need to DH half the time or even all the time? |
| 3. By: stickball on 12-06-2008 18:38:01 I like the Silva for Fukudome idea. How about Silva to the Tigers, Willis to the Cubs, and Fukudome to the Mariners. |
| 4. By: jakehamlin33 on 12-06-2008 19:19:13 Jason, why would the cubs give up Fukudome for an overpaid mediocre pitcher? Especially when they are looking for left handed outfield help. just curious............. |
| 5. By: CrustyJuggler on 12-06-2008 19:51:06 Cause Fukudome was a pretty huge disappointment. That and he is about as overpaid as Silva is. |
| 6. By: hardball24 on 12-06-2008 20:02:16 One of the interesting things about Bradley is that he is a type "B" free agent, so we wouldn't lose any picks, correct? Texas would just get a sandwich pick. Here's my question, and I realize that Z is trying to put together a team to compete this year, but why wouldn't we: A) Sign a few type "B" free agents who are likely to become type "A"s by year end. The formula for the status is ridiculous, but from what I understand, fairly predictable. It could potentially set us up for more first round picks next year. (I'll admit, I haven't crunched numbers on type "B" free agents to see who is close, but for Bradley to be type "B" is plain silly). B) Absolutely trade Putz for the best you can get. Then "create" a closer out of Green/Lowe/Batista etc. If one of them can perform respectively and successfully get the "closer" label, there'll definitely be teams at the deadline looking for a "proven" guy. That's basically what happened with Sherrill. Just some random ideas. Thanks for keeping your ear to the ground, its always great to hear rumors. |
| 7. By: hardball24 on 12-06-2008 20:09:19 Also, anyone stop and consider that we decided not to trade Washburn and his contract last year, and Tazawa just went to the Sox for ~$3M? It sounds like he took a discount to go to Boston, but I've got to believe if we had thrown the $10M we could have saved in the Washburn deal his way, he'd be ours. High AAA level prospect is considerably better than our almost replacement-level SP. |
| 8. By: 3rdWatch on 12-06-2008 20:17:19 I think that the M's can get good value for Putz. I'm not counting on a winning team so moving Batista to the pen as the closer would be ideal. If he succeeds he is a great trade option that could net a good prospect. By moving Batista to the pen as the closer it would allow Lowe half the year to adjust and finish the year as the "future" closer. I think that the M's should get Fields in the mix should Putz be dealt. I'd like to get a good stance on what the M's new staff and player development team sees in Fields. Jason any new news on the Fields front? |
| 9. By: jakehamlin33 on 12-06-2008 20:54:52 Back to the shortstop talk, What is ur best E.T.A on Truinfel? I just ask cause all the talk about a 3 year deal for Furcal. Would that hinder his development or do u envision him at 2b or 3b? |
| 10. By: hmbaseball7 on 12-06-2008 21:05:07 I think he's better fit for third base if his power develops well, I've heard that he has the best infield arm in our system and some think the best in the whole minor leagues. |
| 11. By: Blowgun7 on 12-06-2008 21:18:22 I like him at 2B, it would negate his best tool a bit (his arm) but turning the double play, or going deep in the hole and making a strong throw are still important at 2B.. Plus if you could carry his bat at 2B, you have real value on your hands |
| 12. By: hmbaseball7 on 12-06-2008 21:22:42 Yeah good point. |
| 13. By: Slack on 12-06-2008 21:46:15 Would the Tigers really be willing to trade RIck Porcello to the M's for Putz? I wouldn't if I were Detroit. Their rotation underachieved last year and Porcello might not be that far off from helping them out. But landing Porcello would really get me fired up if it ever happened. |
| 14. By: hmbaseball7 on 12-06-2008 22:20:50 I think he's better fit for third base if his power develops well, I've heard that he has the best infield arm in our system and some think the best in the whole minor leagues. |
| 15. By: hmbaseball7 on 12-06-2008 22:20:54 Yeah good point. |
| 16. By: slick on 12-06-2008 22:27:25 The Indians are looking for a closer this could be trade partner. From what I hear the economy is effecting some mid to smaller market teams, even though Woods Fuentes K-rod could be signed I think these teams dont want to spend 8+ million on a solid closer. I am wondering what others think about Ryan Garko, 90RBI 350OBA and he is cheap. Garko and Branyan could be a nice platoon, and give the M's some flexability to trade Beltre if they are swep off there feet with an offer. The Indians have much depth at 1st in the minors with Laporta and Mills. I dont know maybe Putz for Garko and prospect Miller/Huff and Brantley. Miller when healthy has some great stuff, but thats when he is heathy. |
| 17. By: Snave on 12-06-2008 22:39:38 It seems the Mariners already have several pitchers who are also doing well in the lower minors, like Philippe Aumont, Michael Pineda, maybe Juan Ramirez. Would they want Porcello too? I guess they might if the idea is to get the best talent available in a deal. As for shortstops, would it be worth it to either suffer with Yuni for another year or two, or else find a stopgap guy of some kind to use instead... and then draft Grant Green in June and hope he is ready in a year or two? (Of course it's hard to tell who the Mariners will draft next year, but Jason, who do you think they will go for? Dustin Ackley? Alex White? Green? Would Green be worth taking with the Mariners' pick? I'd guess the Nationals will take Strasburg.) You are right... there just aren't really any decent stopgap FA shortstops on the market besides Furcal and Cabrera. Nick Punto? Heh... |
| 18. By: Slack on 12-06-2008 22:55:35 I'm not sure the Nats will take Strasburg because his agent is Scott Boras and they failed to sign Aaron Crow who wasn't a Boras client. I could be wrong because they have another top ten pick and the road to a top pick goes through Boras with Green and Ackley also being his clients. I guess its hard to say. Also, there is no reason why Porcello couldn't join the mix of M's pitchers in the system. You can never have enough pitchers and he will be in the upper levels next year. I know thats just one of many scenarios that could happen so I'm not getting my hopes up that much at all. I just want moves that will help the organization in any way. |
| 19. By: hmbaseball7 on 12-06-2008 23:05:43 If they can't even sign a non Scott Boras client would they be able to sign a Boras client esp. one like Strasburg? |
| 20. By: rocketdawg31 on 12-06-2008 23:15:03 Regarding Strasburg- as it stands right now, Nats would be nuts not to take him, but a lot of things change over the course of time leading up to the draft. If Strasburg is there at #2, it's a no-brainer. If he's taken #1, I say you go with the very best BAT in the draft, and that's probably Ackley. As Jason has mentioned before, the system is shallow with upper-tier bats, Ackley would be a welcome addition. The odds are you can load up on pitching for the higher minors (where there's a dearth of premium arms) just a little later in the draft (22nd pick, and maybe one a little higher if Ibanez helps us out- hope,hope!- & sandwich rounds). I don't think Josh Fields will be signed by us for one very simple reason- the M's want a better player with that 22nd pick this year. I can name at least three players in this year's draft I'd rather have than Fields that can most likely be had at #22. Fields may not be taken until somewhere in the sandwich round/2nd round this year, and there's even (legitimate, I think) speculation on just how much the guy wants to play ball. He's resisted overtures from both us and the Braves (who it seems to me rarely miss out on home-state players), and I think his ceiling in the majors is as a better-than-average set-up man, anyway. As for trade rumors, I'd love to see Porcello come to us, but there's so much fake juju on the stove right now, I'm among those who have to say "wait and see". I'm pretty sure the next couple of weeks are going to be fun, though. |
| 21. By: toonsterwu on 12-06-2008 23:24:36 Washburn for Jones makes some sense for both sides. Dodgers get another starter, while the Mariners can go with Rowland-Smith/Morrow and give Jones a shot. Either way, only one more year for both sides. I don't think the Cubs would do Silva for Fukudome, particularly if the Peavy deal happens, but even if it doesn't. It's hard to buy Silva as a better option than Jason Marquis, and the Cubs seem likely to give Fukudome a platoon shot. If they could find a deal that takes away some remaining burden on Fukudome, then I think they would look. But Silva would replace one burden for another, and Silva would be an awfully high priced middle reliever for the Cubs. Not sure the Cubs would even look at Putz. They seem content on going with Marmol, which is understandable. I don't like Gregg all that much, but Gregg/Samardzija could be decent setting up, and if Angel Guzman rebounds, that's another arm that could be late inning. If they add a pen arm, I think it's a LOOGY. There's more money than some expected (rumored 140-145 from the Trib yesterday), but adding a 5th starter and a bat takes precedence over the pen (although personally, I'd address the offense, pen, 5th starter in that order). |
| 22. By: hmbaseball7 on 12-07-2008 00:04:02 Do you think Putz would be enough for Kelly Johnson or would it take more? |
| 23. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-07-2008 01:28:28 The Cubs are trying to give Fukudome away. Piniella hates him. |
| 24. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-07-2008 01:45:38 I think the Mariners would be crazy to settle for a Johnson-Putz trade straight up. |
| 25. By: hmbaseball7 on 12-07-2008 01:51:43 So they could get more like Johnson and Schaefer? |
| 26. By: toonsterwu on 12-07-2008 02:03:49 Oh, I'm sure the Cubs are shopping Fukudome, and heck, would probably settle for a PTBNL if a team ate a decent portion of Kosuke's contract (say, half) but ... dealing Fukudome for Silva? What's the point of that for the Cubs? Doesn't free much money (I'm assuming neither side would eat anything) while adding an extremely high priced 5th starter/middle reliever (and I'm not sold Silva is better than Marquis or some other options within the system). The Cubs would still have to shop Silva or Marquis to clear up salary, something they have to do now anyways, and end up potentially needing two OF's, a platoon partner for Reed Johnson in CF and a fulltime RF (as Pie would likely be shopped in any Peavy deal, whether it's to a third team or to the Padres). |
| 27. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-07-2008 02:12:13 toonsterwu, Let's not act like there's never cash involved in trades. If the Mariners offered the Cubs Silva and, say, $8 million cash for Fukudome, they'd pull the trigger without hesitation. Piniella may or may not get his wish to get rid of Fukudome, but whether they move Marquis or not, a straight-up deal with no cash is something Lou would pine for to no end, the fact that they could save Fukudome is owed 38 mil over the next three years. Silva is due 41 mil over the next three years. It's certainly not far-fetched, no matter what the math tells you. Look beyond the numbers and the logic. |
| 28. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-07-2008 02:12:55 I think Putz COULD bring Schafer+, but not he and Johnson both. |
| 29. By: jgstecker on 12-07-2008 11:08:00 I really don't see why the Cubs would want Silva at all. I don't think they're desperate to unload Fukodome, since they haven't been actively looking for another CF. I still think Silva can be something close to a league average innings eater, which is something of a valuable commodity. At least more so than the other bad contracts we'll be looking at. I don't like the idea of trading Washburn for Jones either. I think you can get someone to Washburn and most of his salary for nothing, and I can think of better ways to spend that money than on Andruw Jones. He's toast. LA would be all over that deal if it was out there. How Z handles the Putz situation will be key, I believe. If Putz is indeed traded, I think that's a sign that 2009 is a full-on rebuilding year. Without Putz, the bullpen is a disaster. Literally devoid of anyone qualified to pitch past the 7th. With Putz we're still two good arms away from being competitive there. Beltre's a little bit different story because if you trade him, you can move Lopez to 3rd and help your defense up the middle, clear a big chunk of the payroll, and bring in some MLB-ready help. |
| 30. By: rightwingrick on 12-07-2008 11:11:06 I would not touch Jordan Schafer of Atlanta with a ten foot pole. If he's just had a 50 game suspension for performance-enhancing drugs, no one has any clue how good the guy really is when clean, how long he's been using, etc. I don't understand Carlos Silva, and maybe you have some insights there, Jason. He always seemed to be in the papers urging his teammates to "come ready to play", "never give up", etc., but he appeared to be getting fatter and fatter as the year wore on, and not living up to his own rhetoric. What's really going on there? As for Washburn, I read that he really was disappointed NOT to be traded at the deadline last year, and the article hinted that he had a bad attitude. Any inside knowledge there, and any clue if the attitude wil turn around (if, in fact, true) with the new GM and manager at the helm? Is Silva and Washburn are obvious problems, your trade scenarios or ANY trade scenario with them makes a lot of sense. Too bad they hurt their value so much last year. |
| 31. By: Marlin Man on 12-07-2008 11:17:01 You can put aany color lipstick on this pig you want- but I just can't see anyone taking Silva for anything- absolute Crap and gutless to boot. M.M. |
| 32. By: CrustyJuggler on 12-07-2008 12:54:38 Hey Jason, I asked this on another article but it got buried a bit. Since the winter meetings start tomorrow, what do you think of the M's picking up Donald Veal via Rule 5? Do you think he could come in right away in a setup lefy role? In '07, BA said he had the best curveball in the Cubs' system and a pretty good fastball. Seems he has some trouble with starting these past few seasons. He just looks like a guy that could be the next Arthur Rhodes type for us. Strong fastball with a solid breaking ball. Do you have any recent scouting on the guy cause I can't find much. |
| 33. By: mykillmagnum on 12-07-2008 15:46:14 does a putz for prince fielder trade make sense? obviously there will have to be other pieces to the trade. i think that would make some sense, the brewers are looking for a closer, and we all know seattle needs everything. what do you think jason? |
| 34. By: jonbbt on 12-07-2008 16:01:31 ^Those "other pieces" would have to be big pieces. They can get much more for Fielder. |
| 35. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-07-2008 17:33:19 I'd take a shot at Veal, but I haven't seen or heard enough about some of the other availables, so I can't make an assessment I feel comfortable with on that. Others keep telling me there are better values, such as Pedro Strop, a 23-year-old right-hander out of the Dominican. He's undersized at 6-feet and 175 pounds and a converted infielder who started pitching in '06. He has under 90 innings of experience. He was removed from the 40-man roster by Colorado in September, and the Rangers picked him up. He fanned 75 in 54 innings in 2007, but missed most of 2008 with an undisclosed elbow injury. That would be my question with Strop - whether his elbow is sound. He missed the final few weeks of 2007 with an elbow sprain, too. But he has stuff, good enough for a 7th inning role if he develops his breaking ball. I hear he throws in the 91-94 mph range, touching the mid-90s. |
| 36. By: Fireballer55 on 12-07-2008 18:00:37 Hey Jason, with all this trade talk. I would love to find a cornerstone player to build with. Such as Matt Kemp, I think he could roam Center for us for a few years and be a middle of the lineup bat. Any chance we get him? Heard anything? I would trade Beltre to Dodgers for him and another pitcher, maybe McDonald? |
| 37. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-07-2008 18:36:15 I can't see LAD trading any of their projected starters, outside Ethier, to get Beltre. If they whiff on Furcal, Hudson and Manny, I could see them getting involved with prospects, but not Kemp at this stage. |
| 38. By: flamefox111 on 12-07-2008 20:12:38 I actually like the idea of the Washburn-Jones deal if they think Jones can stay healthy for most of the season. Its not like we need Washburn and if Jones is healthy he will hit like the Richie Sexson we fired and have a great glove in center. He would be better than Reed |
| 39. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-07-2008 21:33:26 Except Jones' has eaten his way off the "good defenders" list. He's merely adequate, maybe slightly above-average on his good days. |
| 40. By: John_S on 12-08-2008 08:42:53 Geoff Baker says that the Twins may be open to talking about a trade for Beltre. What do you think would be a good return from the Twins? Do you think the Twins would give up a combo mix of Carlos Gomez, Kevin Slowey, Glen Perkins or Ben Revere? What have you heard about Delmon Young? His power numbers were awful last year and I've heard that he's not very good in the clubhouse. When Gardy was asked about who would start in the OF as of today he named Span, Gomez and Cuddyer. Sound like Young could be had, but would he be worth the risk? |
| 41. By: Edman on 12-08-2008 12:19:00 I can't agree with dumping Betancourt. Too many times we've seen rash decisions come back to haunt this team. So what, Betancourt had a crap year? So did many on the team. Unless someone blows you away with a good deal, you see what new leadership can do with Yuni and Lopez next year. They made mistakes not based on lack of ability, but lack of focus, which I blame on McLaren and company. Sometimes, it's not the player, but the leadership. Unless you like the possibility of repeating history, based on last year, it's foolish to start swapping parts until you see how they react under new guidence. The idea that Hardy is the answer isn't any better a bet than Yuni finding focus. It's easy to say scrap everything, after a 101 loss season. But, don't trade away a reasonably priced SS in a race to be less medicre. I thought we were in no hurry to contend? So, you can't wait until after next season to move him? Fools act rash.....but it doesn't make them rational. |
| 42. By: StandinPat on 12-08-2008 12:23:11 Fools apparently also cant see a player getting more and more out of shape every year, losing precious range and becoming a worse and worse defender at the most critical position on the field, or the fact that same same player is a free swinger, who almost never walks and has very limited power. Yup, he's a keeper. |
| 43. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-08-2008 12:44:34 I'm not going to get rid of Betancourt just for the sake of getting rid of him. He's cheap, not blocking anyone and I'm curious to see the influence Ibanez has on him this winter. |
| 44. By: Edman on 12-08-2008 13:29:23 Great reply, StandinPat. Good to see that you're willing to look past your obvious prejudices, to accept that maybe it was just a bad year. You couldn't possibly be wrong, could you? You, and many like you, are totally blinded because you watched a bad team, under bad leadership, struggle. You ASSUME that it can't be turned around. So, we'll go experiment with someone else. Had we followed that line of logic, Lopez would have been gone before last season. So what, he's a free swinger? That isn't what lead to a decline. And, lets look past August and September, when he started to show some patience. All I'm saying is, lets not act rash, and put ourselves in an even worse hole. There's no need to rush to judgement. Is that too hard to accept for you? |
| 45. By: baseballman on 12-08-2008 13:31:03 JAC, what exactly is ibanez doin with yuni? Ive seen that a couple of times, but I dont get what it is? Is raul going to work with yuni this offseason? |
| 46. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-08-2008 13:38:52 Betancourt is in FLA working out with Ibanez this winter, and if Betancourt becomes even 5% more like Raul in any way, he'll be 5% better for it on the field come April. Raul has a very well-respected workout regimen, complemented by his Michael Jackson-esque oxygen chamber that he lies in to help his body recover from workouts. |
| 47. By: Adam T on 12-08-2008 13:39:19 Re: Betancourt - What are you waiting for? He's entering his fourth full year as a big-leaguer, and he hasn't shown an ounce of improvment at the plate. His walk rates are the same, his power and OBP skills haven't improved, AND his defense has regressed. He's doing exactly the opposite of what a player at his age should be doing. And this isn't a one-year speedbump, either. Sure, Ibanez could get him into shape. We can hope. But as he gets older, it is going to be harder for him to stay in shape and remain a productive ML player. Because if he doesn't have range at SS, he's pretty much useless. So says the last three years at the plate. |
| 48. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-08-2008 13:41:53 All you talking about Betancourt, listen up. Just because you can think of many better at shortstop, doesn't mean the team will be able to acquire one. So until that time comes, the team, and us as fans, should remain hopeful that he can come to camp in better shape and show improvement, at least defensively. He's not blocking any prospects, he's very cheap against the payroll... just chill, will ya? Sure, they need a new one to contend, but that doesn't mean you trade Betancourt for the sake of getting rid of him. |
| 49. By: Adam T on 12-08-2008 13:55:48 Unfortunately, the Tigers appear close to signing Adam Everett, who would have been an available upgrade. |
| 50. By: ernier on 12-08-2008 14:18:43 Another way to look at the Tigers signing Adam Everett (and the trade for Laird) is that they've filled holes at Catcher and SS and have given up very little to do so. This may make them more willing to give up a top prospect or young major league talent for Putz. |
| 51. By: Adam T on 12-08-2008 14:24:47 Other than Porcello, is there any top prospect or young ML talent in the Tiger organization that would be worthy of Putz? I like possible matches with Cleveland, the Mets, or STL better. |
| 52. By: ernier on 12-08-2008 14:39:35 I think after Porcello they are not too deep in the minors because of the trades for Renteria, Cabrera and Willis. I do like Matt Joyce as a left handed corner outfielder with some pop. Jeff Larish has been mentioned also. I like the matchup with STL. It would be nice to try and bring back Ankiel or Colby Rasmus in a Putz deal |
| 53. By: Edman on 12-08-2008 15:16:36 You're upset about not signing Adam Everett? You're concerned about Yuni not living up to his promise, while drooling over a guy who's never even come close to meeting expectations made of him? Tit for tat, as far as I can see. Plug in one underachiever with another.....equals.....solves nothing. |
| 54. By: Adam T on 12-08-2008 15:19:17 It's pretty simple, Ed: The difference between Everett and Yuni in the field more than makes up for any difference between the two at the plate. Everett > Yuni. |
| 55. By: Adam T on 12-08-2008 15:19:46 And I'm not advocating that Everett becomes our SS of the future, either. |
| 56. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-08-2008 15:52:27 No thanks on Joyce or Larrish, neither is an impact bat you want in a corner. Some people really like Iorg, but I've yet to hear a convincing argument that he's a future star or even close to it. And Ankiel isn't even really a young player anymore. Dude is 30 in July and not special in the least. |
| 57. By: Edman on 12-08-2008 17:12:03 Sorry, Adam, I'm not buying that Everett is different enough in the field to warrant replacing Yuni. More than makes up for any differences at the plate? Get real. Great fielding shortstops who can't hit are pretty easy to find. If you contend that Yuni can't (or more specifically will never hit) and that Everett's glove is a difference maker, then don't mind me if I think your assessment of Everett is way over the top. |
| 58. By: slick on 12-08-2008 22:32:45 Jason what do you think about Hodges 3rd/1st base prospect Indians. He had a real good AFL might be a good trade target for Putz something like Hodges and Miller for Putz. Miller came back from injury in the Dominicano Summer league. |
| 59. By: StandinPat on 12-09-2008 13:49:02 Edman, How is watching a player get progressively worse and worse over the course of 4 years, and deciding an upgrade is necessary rushing to judgement? And how exactly am I blinded? Because I see our weakest defender on the team currently holding down the most critical defensive position on the field, while contributing nothing at the plate? Yeah, apprently Im the one who doesnt have a clue. Fact is, there are a couple of trade opportunites, a couple of FA opportunites, and maybe an opportunity in the draft to upgrade SS, which IS critical to the M's getting better. You can argue that the M's most likely wont contend this year and so they dont have to make that upgrade this offseason sure, but that wasnt what I was arguing against. It's really quite simple. Betancourt isnt good with the glove, and getting worse, and he isnt good with the bat, and getting worse. M's should be looking for an upgrade. Dont know how to make that any simpler. |
| 60. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-10-2008 02:10:24 I like Hodges, don't love him. And now that Wood is aboard it's moot, but Miller-Hodges is a lot to give up for the Tribe. |
| 61. By: Patrick517 on 12-19-2008 15:30:55 Washburn, Silva & Tuiasosopo for Fukudome! |
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