|By Chris Crawford||By 01-13-2012|
|1. By: Blowgun7 on 01-13-2012 16:46:52|
You just traded a special young pitcher for right handed DH..
Great job Jack... really great job...
I have no doubt Montero has a special bat.. but he's also got no position, is right handed, can't run..
Pineda should have only been dealt in a package for a legit major league bat with some position value..
God I hate this move
|2. By: bunvt on 01-13-2012 16:49:43|
Tweet from Greg Johns:
No confirmation from team, but source says Mariners sending Pineda and Jose Campos to Yankees for Jesus Montero/Hector Noesi.
|3. By: bunvt on 01-13-2012 16:52:11|
Sorry, Chris, my screen didn't show your update when I posted.
|4. By: nwmsfan on 01-13-2012 16:53:24|
Pineda and Campos?!
|5. By: Blowgun7 on 01-13-2012 16:55:25|
Desperation move by Jack. Massive failure when you toss Campos into the mix.
|6. By: SMariners11 on 01-13-2012 17:05:22|
Chris, what do you mean another piece? Isn't is for sure a 2 for 2?
|7. By: Edman on 01-13-2012 17:08:20|
Similar things were said when Tillman and Butler were traded to the Orioles. How did that turn out?
Campos is still very young. I'm not ready to hand him a Cy Young award just yet. This may come back to haunt Seattle, but then again, Seattle has a lot of pitching, and can still draft another arm next year, and possibly add Oswalt if Fielder falls through.
Let's wait and see how this all works out, before overracting.
|8. By: Adam H. Wong on 01-13-2012 17:10:00|
It's not a desperation move.
Both Pineda and Montero have concerns. Pineda, flamethrowers always have concerns. Montero can realistic play C/DH.
The trade isn't official yet, but word is 2 for 2. It would be great if NYY threw in another piece.
|9. By: Slack on 01-13-2012 17:14:30|
I don't mind the Mariners dealing Campos. I'd rather deal him than Walker and Paxton because he is further down in the minors.
|10. By: Ianyo on 01-13-2012 17:14:45|
Looking at Noesi's minor league stats, he seems a bit like Pineda. High-ish K's low BB.
I'm not sure how he fares to the scout's eye, but statistically, he looks solid. Not sure if he can be a starter or what have you. I'll leave that to these guys.
But, what if Noesi turns into a viable starter? We just traded Pineda and got Montero AND a similar pitcher?
|11. By: nwmsfan on 01-13-2012 17:19:00|
So what if Campos is young? He grades out high among scouts and they like him. Pineda was 19 not too long ago, just because they're not ML ready shouldn't make them more expendable.
|12. By: nwmsfan on 01-13-2012 17:21:42|
Pineda, Campos for Montero, Nova, Noesi's makes much more sense as it softens the rotation blow of Pineda and it gives fair value for Campos who has number 1 potential
|13. By: Juan Valdez on 01-13-2012 17:27:03|
Jack Z. must think really highly of Montero, as in he must believe that the bat is special enough to outweigh the lack of a position and batting right-handed in Safeco Field.
To be honest, I'm all for trading Pineda. I just figured we would get more of a haul for him. But again, maybe the M's scouts see something truly special in Montero.
I don't get the other part of this trade though. It doesn't upset me, but I don't get it. Is Noesi special? I don't know much about him. His numbers look okay, but not great. I'm not sure why we would trade someone like Campos for bullpen depth. Again, I'm not upset about it, but it doesn't make too much sense to me. Now, if Nova is included in the trade as well, then it seems like the balance tilts way in favor of the Mariners. We'll see I guess.
|14. By: KingFelix on 01-13-2012 17:27:48|
I guess this is Plan B. If the deal gets us both Montero and Nova the deal is a steal for the Ms. If we don't get Nova in the deal my guess is we must have a FA deal in place for Jackson to be our new number 2 in the rotation. We can still draft a bat with the 3rd pick and have a ton of payroll room in 2013.
|15. By: Juan Valdez on 01-13-2012 17:29:03|
Jason - is there any chance that the M's would go after Roy Oswalt now?
|16. By: SubtoBlack on 01-13-2012 17:32:11|
Yankees just signed Kuroda as well. Wonder if that gives more credibility to Nova coming to Seattle. They have CC, Pineda, Hughes, Kuroda, Burnett, Nova and Garcia as of now...might be adding more SP knowing they are losing one? One can only hope...
|17. By: SMariners11 on 01-13-2012 17:32:58|
I would like to see Edwin Jackson signing now.
|18. By: rocketdawg31 on 01-13-2012 17:33:03|
The only way this trade makes 100% sense to me is if:
A.) They've decided that Montero is a special righty bat, and able to conquer Safeco (and I'm not even entertaining any pipe dreams about him being able to remain at catcher, mind you).
and B.) They've already determined that they're likely going to select a top college arm in June like Giolito or Appel, and offset the loss of Pineda that way.
I really, really hope Ivan Nova is part of this deal, but I'm guessing not. If he's in there, this deal makes me smile a bit.
As it is, it's admittedly a little disappointing.
|19. By: chemberry on 01-13-2012 17:41:45|
I am assuming there is more to the deal than has been reported so far (or there are FA signings about to take place we are unaware of).
|20. By: titans12 on 01-13-2012 17:42:08|
Love the deal.If we can sign Jackson this could look real good.Pickup a 3b like Prado and we have some good young offense
|21. By: slamcactus on 01-13-2012 17:43:52|
Echo most peoples' disappointment. The only way this makes sense to me is if the Ms professional scouting people are convinced that the rest of the league's consensus is wrong and Montero can catch.
The odds of Hultzen and/or making the majors to start the year just skyrocketed, as otherwise the Ms rotation is currently Felix, Vargas, Beaven, Furbush, Vazquez. They'll likely bring in another arm, but I can't see them going with even two of those guys in the rotation to start the year.
|22. By: slamcactus on 01-13-2012 17:46:16|
Obviously Noesi's in the mix for a rotation spot as well.
|23. By: safecochatter on 01-13-2012 17:48:52|
jason says deal is Not done.
as far as a "leaky" Yankee org. this is starting to remind me of the cliff lee trade. complete with the east coast thinking it's a done deal when it's not.
|24. By: chinmusic on 01-13-2012 17:49:21|
and you seem to have forgotten Iwakuma
|25. By: krob4mvp on 01-13-2012 17:53:57|
Did "The Bear" die or something? C'mon Slamcactus.... Nobody disses The Bear like that....nobody!
|26. By: hoiland on 01-13-2012 17:55:20|
Chris is right.
Noesi for Campos is insane.
It has to be Nova, it needs to be Nova.
Especially after the Kuroda signing.
Has to be Nova.
|27. By: Ianyo on 01-13-2012 17:55:26|
Buster says Nova is not in the deal.
|28. By: Chris Crawford on 01-13-2012 17:57:09|
It doesn't look like Nova is in the deal. The deal is a slight loss now, in my estimation.
|29. By: Pyroteknik701 on 01-13-2012 17:57:57|
without nova the deal looks alot less appealing...But they went after one of the needs so we cant say they didnt try to help our putrid offense this year
|30. By: rocketdawg31 on 01-13-2012 17:59:27|
The Noesi-for-Campos is the part of the equation that'd make me most upset.
I know Noesi is way closer to MLB-ready, but that's not value in talent.
I want Nova (who, interestingly enough, turned 25 yesterday).
A rotation of Felix-Nova-Iwakuma-Hultzen and whoever wins the 5th slot out of Beavan, Furbush and Vargas I can live with (maybe Vazquez wins the 5th spot, but I doubt it)..or some variation of that, anyway.
Maybe one thing to be really happy about is that Paxton and Walker are untouched. And Walker could wind up better than Pineda.
|31. By: rocketdawg31 on 01-13-2012 18:02:07|
Okay...no Nova. Well, I think we kinda lost this deal, on the face of it. Montero had better be a Stanton-like talent hitting for it to be worth it.
This strikes me as the kind of deal that either both teams win or both teams lose, though.
|32. By: rjfrik on 01-13-2012 18:03:50|
At first glance this trade seems like a wash or a slight advantage to the Yankees, slight, and that is just because Campos was included. Scouts know what Campos is and he has a very high ceiling. So the rumors of another piece coming back make sense.
As far as Montero goes. I think some posting on here don't realize how special of a bat the kid is. When he was called up he hit .328 and slugged over .600!!! That's a big bat. He's proven it at every level and will be an immediate fixture in our lineup of the next 5 years. I would of traded him straight up for Pineda even though his position is in question. He is that special.
I also think this tells us that Fielder is out. This is a plan B to me and reading the tea leaves (Fielder in Texas talking to them about a contract) tells me he doesn't want to come here and we aren't going to out bid other teams for him. This to me is great news. Come 2013 we will have a TON of money to spend, have no albatross contracts and have a nice young core of players to build around.
About the Pitching. First we have three guys who are all considered #2's or higher at AA or higher in our minors. Hultzen, Paxton and Walker are good, which made Pineda trade for a young power bat a deal that we can afford to make. Sure the rotation might not be set this year. But next year all three could possibly be in the rotation, combine that with Felix and it's exciting. Campos was a strange inclusion, unless it really brings back another player I have a hard time believing that Pineda, and if it had to be done, a very small piece couldn't bring Montero this way on it's own.
Also, if Fielder is in Texas talking to Nolan that tells me the Rangers aren't interested in the five year 80 million dollar deal that Yu is demanding. This is good news to us because if he doesn't sign we just might see him in an M's jersey in a few years. He has stated that he would like to play here and if he did play in the MLB that he wants to be on the west coast.
So for me I'm o.k. with this trade. I like Montero. I'm really really curious if another piece comes our way. If so then I think we did good. If not, then I think we slightly, slightly overpaid for hitting. But sometimes you have to overpay for something you desperately need. And who knows the Noesi kid could turn out to be a good addition. Have to do some more research on him.
Also I don't think for one second just because we got rid of Pineda that we will take a pitcher in this years draft. I still think we will take best player available and there will be some great hitters available at number 3.
|33. By: Blowgun7 on 01-13-2012 18:04:05|
1)Ivan Nova isn't even that good. Don't know why everyone is hyping him. He's a #3 starter tops.. and probably not even that.
2)Having other young SP should have no impact on evaluating this deal. Young elite SP is a commodity in baseball. You don't move that in a deal like this (RH DH) cause you have some other good starters to fill in. If no special bat WITH positional value was available, he should have held out even if that meant going into the season with this bad offense.
3)Jack is desperate. He knows he needs power bats. He knows that the team currently constructed would have been offensively inept thus driving away more fans and revenues. He knows his job is on the line the next 1-2 yrs. He made a desperation move when he should have held out and waited for a NON-DH young bat to come available.
|34. By: rotoenquire on 01-13-2012 18:09:02|
Pending physicals this deal is done. Shannon Drayer talked to Pineda's Dad and the M's notified Pineda he was traded. Shannon knows her stuff. You also have Jim Heyman saying it is done and Heyman would not toss it out there unless it was. That all being said.
At first, I was upset with the trade thinking the M's just got screwed. After further thought I like this deal. Pineda had a strong beginning to his season last year. Then he fell off dramatically. Pineda's monthly ERA's ranged from 4.00 to 6.00 the second half of the year. He is a two pitch pitcher at present. Compos is a good talent but years away and has some major control issues.
The M's got Montero who by every expert under the sun is to be the second coming with his bat. Noesi is further along than Compos and should be our #3,4 starter this year. With Hultzen most likely being in the rotation by years end and Paxton not far behind you have a solid rotation heading into 2013. Pineda maybe a future Cy Young type pitcher, but his question marks and what we get in way of a bat out way any future concern.
Bat's are hard to find and when you get a chance to add the power that Montero possesses you go for it. the M's lineup is much improved and you do not lose a lot in the rotation.
With all that being said it will take playing ball this year to see if the experts are right. But, the way I see it we are more likely out on the Fielder sweepstakes. Fielder visited Texas today. Reminds me of a story. Fielder was about 14 and dad used to take him to Arlington to hit batting practice. At 14 Fielder could hit it out of the ballpark. That kinda stuff sticks with you. And could make Texas a favorite.
Also with Carp, Montero and Smoak that leaves little room for Fielder. You could trade Smoak, but would be trading way low. Next year when Ichiro is off the books and maybe Figgins is traded would be a better year to nab a F/A.
Some Noesi info:
07/11/2010 Futures Game Selection
06/12/2010 FSL Mid-Season All-Star
06/07/2010 EAS Pitcher of the Week
04/19/2010 FSL Pitcher of the Week
06/23/2009 SAL Mid-Season All-Star
05/18/2009 SAL Pitcher of the Week
Some Montero info:
12/22/2011 MiLB.com Organization All-Star
07/13/2011 INT Mid-Season All-Star
12/23/2010 MiLB.com Organization All-Star
08/31/2010 INT Post-Season All-Star
07/14/2010 INT Mid-Season All-Star
07/15/2009 EAS Mid-Season All-Star
07/12/2009 Futures Game Selection
06/20/2009 FSL Mid-Season All-Star
10/02/2008 Baseball America High Class A All-Star
08/26/2008 SAL Post-Season All-Star
07/13/2008 Futures Game Selection
06/17/2008 SAL Mid-Season All-Star
|35. By: Blowgun7 on 01-13-2012 18:12:43|
Pineda did not fall off in the second half. He had a dominant rookie campaign. Struck out nearly 10 guys a game. Walked nobody. Had excellent advanced stats.
Montero has never dominated AAA ball. Had a hot month in the bigs.
We also threw in a top young pitcher in Campos and got back a bullpen arm.
Miserable deal, following up another miserable deal a few months earlier when we tossed Fister to the curb for a marginal return.
Goodbye Jack. You need to go back to scouting director cause you are a bad GM
|36. By: Ungnome on 01-13-2012 18:15:54|
Z just dealt from strength. Isn't that what everyone was saying he should do? Gotta give up talent to get talent and all the other bullshit.
trading Campos did not set anything back. He had value but Montero has a ton of value too, moreso to the M's than others I believe.
I like what rj said so I'm gonna second that.
Remember, Catricala, Franklin and Martinez are all gonna be in AAA and they all could be quality bats to fill in the gaps around Smoak, Montero, Ackley. Felix, Paxton, Hultzen, Walker and the #3 pick. That is a damn sexy core who could all be in the majors by 2014.
|37. By: safecochatter on 01-13-2012 18:19:27|
ya knew picking up a power bat would cost...
yankees fans are dancing in time square tonight !!
|38. By: Blowgun7 on 01-13-2012 18:22:13|
You never trade an elite young SP for a DH. Let alone a DH who isn't proven.
And to deal Pineda and Campos for under their value because you have a lot of good young pitchers isn't how you run a baseball team.
Young SP is in high demand and is the most valuable thing you can have when approaching a trade.
To only get back a DH is disheartening
|39. By: nwmsfan on 01-13-2012 18:23:31|
Think we need to see what happens with Martinez and Montero to judge those deals. He is dealing young pitching for young bats and we need to see them develop first. 2012 is a big year for young hitters Jack Z went after..Smoak included
|40. By: titans12 on 01-13-2012 18:28:29|
No they aren't.Check Yankee sites they are pissed.They loved Montero
|41. By: rotoenquire on 01-13-2012 18:29:52|
Pineda's ERA jumped a full run from June to July that does not happen if your pitching great. Then rose another 0.20, he struggle the second half as too be expected form a rookie with only 2 pitches. And to say Goodbye Jack is a bit over the top. The Fister trade was a steal. You will see the benefits down the road. The M's needed to fill a lot of holes on this roster and get young solid talent they have done that.
Martinez 3B, Ruffin RP/SP will be in the M's top 10 prospects who the got in the Fister deal along with Wells who is your 4th OF.
Pineda, Compos for Montero C/DH/1B, Noesi SP is a push and could be a great get all around.
Putz and i do not remember who for Carp, Guity, Chavez and Vargas yea that deal blew.
Young so-so's for Lee and then Lee for Smoak and Beaven looks not to bad so far.
JackZ has done a great job and had a vision let it go to work..
|42. By: rotoenquire on 01-13-2012 18:32:55|
Listening to some New York radio.. they are having hissy fits over this deal.. Love to piss off those Yankee fans..lol But on a side note when I was there a couple years ago they all were very friendly.. But still I snicker..
|43. By: rocketdawg31 on 01-13-2012 18:33:06|
I disagree with most of your post.
First, the return for Fister has yet to manifest itself for how good or bad it will be. Just because Fister was a BIG reason the Tigers were in the playoffs this year doesn't mean we lost that deal. Yet.
Second, Noesi's K rate looks better than Nova's (whom I think is better than what you give credit for). He's had TWO starts in the big leagues. We can't just dismiss him as a bullpen arm. Nor can we say he's a bonafide #3. He's just a guy that we have limited data on.
Hey, I'll admit it...if you ask me, I think Zduriencik's done a very good-to-great job of taking us up from Ground Zero and "In Z I trust".
But also, this and the Fister trade are moves that need to be seen borne out to truly evaluate Zduriencik.
|44. By: candasharp on 01-13-2012 18:33:41|
The trade is a solid deal for both team. You have to give up value to get value. You can't expect JZ to steal talent every single time. The key is to not get fleeced. Pineda is a wonderful young pitcher and he could be a hall of famer is everything fell into place. He could also go the way of a thousand other pitchers with awesome pedigrees, skills and even a few great seasons before getting injured, unfocused or otherwise mediocre. Although Pienda had a great season as a rookie, the risk is still higher with a pitcher than a hitter of similar talent and potential. Thus the value in Montero. Montero has a hitter ceiling close to the pitching ceiling of Pineda. His power is exceptional and his hitting eye considered even better. If it all pans out (and we all know that's an if), I see a Manny Ramirez type of hitter at his peak. His power should play in any park so his RH status means little.
The Campos for Noesi means nothing right now. Yes, Campos could turn into Roger Clemens without the roids. He could also turn into Roger Salkeld, Ryan Anderson, JC Ramirez, and numerous other amazing young pitchers that never turn into a major league pitcher. We aren't giving up anything thta will likely help us within the next 3 years so I don't get all the moaning and handwringing. This is a fair deal right now and that's all I need to know.
|45. By: Blowgun7 on 01-13-2012 18:34:35|
When you evolve from being ERA guy, I'll debate you on Pineda's 2011 season.
Secondly, who cares if Martinez and Ruffin are in the Top 10. Outside of Paxton, Walker, Hultzen, Franklin, and Catricala.. we have a pile of potential and little else.. After dealing Campos we now have five legit prospects and then dropoff.. Martinez and Ruffin are in that drop off zone.
|46. By: Ianyo on 01-13-2012 18:36:17|
|47. By: baseballman on 01-13-2012 18:40:02|
blowgun, you're too much.
LOL, you complain about EVERY move made by Jack and everytime you're proved wrong. This instance will most likely be no different...
|48. By: baseballman on 01-13-2012 18:41:44|
Softy just said he recieved this from Montero:
|49. By: baseballman on 01-13-2012 18:44:41|
Sorry for the triple post, but I'm pretty sure #48 was a joke...ha
|50. By: rjfrik on 01-13-2012 18:48:11|
I think you are over reacting a bit Blowgun. This isn't as bad of a trade as you're making it out to be. Montero is legit. You can't judge a trade on surface especially when you trade major league talent for prospects (which you seem to be doing in the Fister trade and partially on this trade). Montero, who I believe still has prospect status, just became our #1 prospect. Noesi can pitch, in what capacity we shall see, but he's the type of pitcher, pin point control and fly ball, who thrives in Seattle, essentially he's Fister who you are complaining about giving up. We might of overpaid, slightly, but sometimes you have to overpay to get something you need and we desperately need a MOTO bat and Montero is one. Did we get fleeced? Hell no. Not even close.
I think a lot of people are going to be excited about a Ackley, Montero, Smoak 2,3,4 this year.
|51. By: Blowgun7 on 01-13-2012 18:54:17|
What move has Jack made for the club where he's proven me wrong time and time again?
I loved the Cliff Lee deal and was happy with the Putz deal.
I've thought his last two deals were bad.
I'm simply not convinced that this move wasn't made out of desperation to add some offense to this currently inept lineup.
I will never advocate dealing an elite young SP prospect for a player with no position value.
|52. By: krob4mvp on 01-13-2012 19:01:00|
Blowgun, I would much rather have a pile of potential than a pile of shit. Furthermore, the Hultzens, Walkers, and Paxtons of the world are still in that potential zone until they prove otherwise. If Brendan Ryan is our Designated Shortstop, all defense no offense, then I am stoked for Chewy Montero to be my designated hitter.
|53. By: rotoenquire on 01-13-2012 19:02:53|
Pineda maybe Elite some day, but right now he is not.. we sold high which is what your supposed to do. Pineda is a few years away from being Elite.. IF and I mean IF he can develop a 3rd pitch. you traded young upside for young upside.. nothing more...
|54. By: baseballman on 01-13-2012 19:04:58|
How about every single draft. You scream about how the sky is falling, and once given time, Jack Z has proven you wrong.
You complain about everything Jack Z does. We get it. It's old news.
|55. By: Blowgun7 on 01-13-2012 19:09:55|
Pineda is an elite young pitching prospect.
"Every single draft"
McNamara makes most of the calls.
And you act like some of the players I wanted us to take suck when they were guys like AJ Cole or Castellanos.
|56. By: rotoenquire on 01-13-2012 19:10:20|
@48 like the link!!!
|57. By: rotoenquire on 01-13-2012 19:14:03|
Elite Pitcher and Elite Prospect are two totally different things. Like comparing apples to sand and saying there the same. lol
|58. By: Juan Valdez on 01-13-2012 19:34:36|
I have a feeling this is a really stupid idea, but is it completely out of the question that Montero could play left field? Have the Yankees ever tried him out there?
|59. By: Lonnie on 01-13-2012 19:44:52|
Something to consider is that perhaps Campos was included in the deal to smooth some feathers that got ruffled a year and a half ago...
|60. By: rjfrik on 01-13-2012 19:55:02|
Well an opinion that most respect, Keith Law, chimed in on the subject about 20 minutes ago on ESPN insider. He gives the Mariners a slight win in this trade. He talks in great detail about how great of a hitter Montero is and will be in the future and also talks about how Pineda will regress in 2012 and that his 2011 stats were somewhat inflated by Safeco and defense behind him. He does say that the lottery ticket in this deal is Campos, that he is very far away but could be a steal down the road about 4 years that could make the Yankees come out winners, but as of now the M's win.
|61. By: Adam T on 01-13-2012 19:56:06|
@59 - If that is the case, Jack needs to be fired YESTERDAY.
We backed out of the deal because Adams was injured. Cashman has acknowledged as much.
I don't like the deal. Pineda by himself would be a decent cost for Montero and Noesi, but Campos as well?
Chris or Jason - Does the 8:19pm (EST?) update still hold?
|62. By: tonydif on 01-13-2012 19:59:25|
We gave up pitching...our great pitching is not helping us win is it? It has not helped us pass the Angels or Rangers has it?
This is a great trade for the MAriners. Having Montero in the lineup will give us more wins than having Pineda in it. I do not think our other 4 starters and reliever will not be complaing one bit about the addition of a power bat in the lineup every day. Expecially once you figure that Pineda's innings can be eaten up by numerous starters from our roster.
Next move will be to trade some of those excess #4-5 SP's and Olivo for much needed OF help...this should not be difficult at all.
Mariners will be much better in 2012, and win at least 85 games.
|63. By: Blowgun7 on 01-13-2012 20:20:32|
Mariners projected with Pineda as a 75 win team. Montero is worth 10+ wins over Pineda.. That's interesting...
|64. By: rocketdawg31 on 01-13-2012 21:01:46|
I'm not 10 GAMES optimistic about Montero's addition, but at least our projected lineup doesn't make me want to cry as much.
|65. By: JonathanAicardi on 01-13-2012 21:02:20|
What I don't like about this is the deal in relative t what other teams got for their young arms. Gonzales and Latos each netted much more than this. Montero's a great prospect but he's still a PROSPECT worth all of 69 major league PA's. The question is will he become a great hitter or merely good one and then, are we satisfied with just a good hitter?
I think the team could have swung Pineda for the two without including Campos, but even that wouldn't quite measure up to the other two deals. I want to be optimistic. I just don't know.
|66. By: rotoenquire on 01-13-2012 21:06:08|
Montero rookie year conservative projection. 145 games played. 45 at Catcher, 30 at 1B and 70 at DH. .264 19HR and 76 RBI. What I actually hope for based off of Talent. .278 28HR and 93 RBI and Rookie of the Year win. The Question is him being a Righty hitting in Safeco. Noesi in a full year as a starter. Conservative projection 3.98 ERA 10-10 180IP and 142K's. What I could see in Safeco 3.68 ERA 12-9 190IP and 168K's as a #4 starter. Pineda a year in that HOME RUN hitters park and under the lights of NEW YORK. 4.78ERA 8-12 202IP and 155k's and giving up a lot of HR's.. That New Yankee Stadium is a beast on pitchers... When that wind gets whirling around YIKES!
|67. By: rotoenquire on 01-13-2012 21:08:14|
Gio and latos were more proven at the MLB level. That is why they got those insane packages. If Pineda played 2-3 more years at a level slightly better than his rookie year he would have fetched a lot more. But in a one year sampling your not going to get what Gio and Latos netted..
|68. By: mymrbig on 01-13-2012 21:11:19|
Things I think are being overlooked:
(1) Because of service time, the M's get 6 years of Montero and gave up 5 years of Pineda. Pineda needs to be roughly 20% better than Montero each season for them to have equal value while under team control. Once you factor in risk of injury for any young pitcher, it makes me feel much better about the Montero/Pineda side.
(2) Noesi is MLB-ready now, which adds some value even if his ceiling is lower than Campos. Campos is sexy because he has a name, but he isn't that different (value wise) from a top 15 HS pitcher taken in this past year's draft (Archie Bradley?). Optimistically, Campos is 2 years away and a lot can go wrong in that time.
(3) Montero is still very young. Same age as Michael Choice, only 7 months older than Anthony Rendon. And he's had 2 full seasons at AAA where he averaged roughly .290/.350/.490. For his age, that is more rakeage than he is getting credit for.
(4) On the whole, I think the M's gave up 2 risky assets and received 2 much safer assets. The risk of injury for Pineda and/or Campos is higher than we really like to think about, while Montero is a pretty safe bet to be, at worst, a slightly-above-average 1B/DH.
I think it is a fair trade for the M's where they fill a need and deal from a strength.
|69. By: Scruggers on 01-13-2012 21:33:13|
You know why I really love this? In the Bavasi era, we heard over and over about the pitching the M's had coming. No big deals were made for the big bat and that pitching didn't pan out.
Montero looks legit bat as you can get not named Mike Stanton. The M's have an excess of pitching talent on the way up and not much in the way of big bats. Righty or lefty, DH or position player - great move.
Jayson Stark on ESPN has it right. It's an old school baseball trade based on need for both teams. I'd love to see Nova in the deal as well, but I'm excited about the move as it stands.
|70. By: VikingArthur on 01-13-2012 21:37:08|
I think that Jack deserves a ton of credit and the benefit of the doubt. He has not been wrong about trades, all of them have worked or at the very least were not losses. I think getting a REAL bat outweighs the risk of not trading Pineda.
|71. By: nighthawk180 on 01-13-2012 21:45:10|
I like this deal. I was a little shocked when I heard Campos was included but the more I think about this deal the more I like it. I thought a trade like this would have cost more talent but Z did a good job here. We still have our big three and Nick Franklin and Catricala so im happy here.
But as i have said before we need another bat to make this teams offense a solid one. This is a great start tho :)
|72. By: hoiland on 01-13-2012 21:54:23|
I really wish Catricala could play 3B. Glad to see Jack is still holding on to him though.
|73. By: sexymarinersfan on 01-13-2012 22:07:19|
I guess you were wrong Jason about the Yankees not doing this deal. Are you happy about this trade?
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