| By Jason A. Churchill |  | By 01-19-2013 |
The Seattle Mariners, after acquiring Michael Morse during the week, are probably a piece or two from being done adding players this offseason, unless a unique opportunity presents itself.
The club obviously needs a catcher, maybe two for spring competition purposes, and could use a starting pitcher. Let's discuss the possibilities.
Catchers
The free agent market doesn't have a lot of intriguing options, but here's what is available:
Rod Barajas
Koyie Hill
Miguel Olivo
Matt Treanor
Kelly Shoppach
Brian Schneider
Ronny Paulino
J.R. Towles
Chris Snyder
George Kottaras*
The M's are likely to focus mostly on defense with the catcher search, which may eliminate Barajas and Shoppach, each of whom are believed to be seeking guaranteed money into seven figures.
Kottaras, who was designated for assignment after the A's traded for John Jaso, is a similar defender, perhaps worse, and is best used as a third catcher and pinch hitter.
Flores is of interest to me; sound defender with some plate skills.
The trade route isn't an impossible path, but clubs are generally done moving significant pieces.
There are a few names worth looking into, however:
Nick Hundley, San Diego Padres
Ryan Hanigan, Cincinnati Reds
Jarrod Saltalamacchia, Boston Red Sox
Jeff Mathis, Miami Marlins
I don't see a match with Boston for Saltalamacchia, plus he's a bat first and below-average glove. Hundley is likely to sit behind Yasmani Grandal and if the Padres can get value they may be willing to part with Hundley, who was hurt for most of 2012 but is a useful second catcher with some power.
Hanigan may become available in 2013, but that isn't likely to be anytime before mid-season, and if the Reds are in the race -- which they should be -- he's not going anywhere.
Devin Mesoraco may or may not take hold of the starting job this year, but he hasn't yet, meaning Hanigan is necessary for the Reds.
Mathis has never been able to hit and he's not exactly a great defensive catcher, but he's good enough and if he's starting just a few games per week, the Mariners could live with him as the backup.
Starting Pitchers
Among remaining free agents are left-hander Joe Saunders and right-hander Kyle Lohse, neither of whom have been linked to Seattle, or vice versa.
Saunders is expected to make a decision soon. Lohse appears to be holding out for a three-year deal. The Mariners aren't likely to bite at any point, and GM Jack Zduriencik recent told the media that the clubs is looking for a young starting pitcher.
Other free agents include:
Erik Bedard, LHP
Freddy Garcia, RHP
Jair Jurrjens, RHP
Derek Lowe, RHP
Shaun Marcum, RHP
Daisuke Matsuzaka, RHP
Kevin Millwood, RHP
Roy Oswalt, RHP
Jonathan Sanchez, LHP
Tim Stauffer, RHP
Chris Young, RHP
Stauffer is very interesting, but he may not be ready until May and the Pares are hoping to re-sign him.
Sanchez has good stuff but can't throw strikes. He may be turning into the next Oliver Perez.
Marcum wants three years, may settle for two, but has medical concerns with his elbow. He missed two months in 2012.
Jurrjens appears healthy, but couldn't get outs in 2012, neither in the big leagues or the minors. The home run ball was a significant issue.
The trade route is probably where the M's add their next pitcher, sans the non-roster invitee type, of which there will be probably be a few.
Rick Porcello, RHP
Chris Capuano, LHP
Ricky Nolasco, RHP
Kyle Drabek, RHP
Mike Leake, RHP
Brian Matusz, LHP
Porcello is the hot name right now but so far the cost has been a little too high. He settled his arbitration case with the Tigers Friday and will earn $5.1 million in 2013.
Capuano nor Nolasco really qualify as young, but if the cost is right both could make some sense for Seattle, who simply need innings covered with league-average performance.
Drabek is the odd-man out in Toronto since the additions of R.A. Dickey, Josh Johnson and Mark Buehrle. Ricky Romero and Brandon Morrow are guaranteed millions and are more established. Drabek has good stuff and despite being just 6 feet tall has a chance to be more than a back-end starter.
Leake is a strike thrower with no upside, but could be valuable as a No. 5 starter, at least for 2013. He's set to make around $3 million.
Matusz is a name mentioned in potential discussion with the Orioles where Justin Smoak would land in Baltimore. I lobe the idea of Matusz, but he's far from a sure thing and I'm still wanting to see what Smoak has in April. In the end I might do the deal, if it's straight up, considering the additions the M's have made thus far and the crowd at first base and DH.
It's unlikely there are any big-time deals left for Seattle to make prior to spring training, perhaps even through the first few months of the 2013 schedule. Adding a pitcher like Porcello, however, is an impact move, and shoring up the catcher position is an absolute must and will happen.
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Comments
The following 58 comment(s) for this article are shown below:
| 1. By: short on 01-19-2013 15:49:06 Jesus Flores was signed by the Dodgers. |
| 2. By: Paul Martin on 01-19-2013 16:01:20 Jason, with every Mariner starter being RIGHT HANDED, how important is it to sign or trade for at least one left handed starting pitcher? I didn't want Porcello for this reason, and thought Chris Capuano would be a good stop gap option until the big 4 are MLB ready. |
| 3. By: Paul Martin on 01-19-2013 16:05:38 BTW...please don't mention Bedard and Olivo as options! I really hope we can move on from them, put them in the past, and not look back! |
| 4. By: strapasp on 01-19-2013 16:24:39 Jason - Any chance the Mariners move Wilhelmsen into the rotation? I believe he was a starter in the minors before getting promoted. Also, I seem to recollect that JZ commented at one point that they were keeping "Wilhelmsen as a starter". |
| 5. By: Edman on 01-19-2013 17:08:03 Why would Jack convert Williamsen to a starter, when he has Walker, Paxton, Hultzen and Maurer in the wings? |
| 6. By: DRWheelock on 01-19-2013 17:25:14 I'm ok with Bedard. He'd be cheap since he doesn't have a job yet. He pulled off a 1.3 WAR in 2012 and a 2.3 WAR in 2011 between two teams. His ERA from 2012 would drop with Seattle. I think he would be a great stop gap for 2013 until the kids are called up to prevent them from qualifying for Super Two status. I also would love Capuano too. (or both Capuano and Bedard). |
| 7. By: strapasp on 01-19-2013 17:27:25 You answered your own question. "In the wings"...it's unlikely any of those guys break camp with the team. They need another starter. |
| 8. By: Edman on 01-19-2013 19:17:16 Who replaces Wilhelmsen, and for how long? |
| 9. By: Paul Martin on 01-19-2013 19:51:00 @4 if they were going to convert a reliever to a starter they would have done so with Furbush. But Jack has said publicaly that he wasn't going to do that. I think in the next year or so Wilhelmsen gets traded and another one of the young power arms becomes the closure. Not sure what makes you think he would make a good starter? |
| 10. By: Paul Martin on 01-19-2013 19:53:09 @6 How many innings do you think Bedard can give you at this stage in his career? I wouldn't want to have to count on him... |
| 11. By: cpuglisi on 01-19-2013 20:03:49 i think that Jurrjens is really intriguing to me. i think there is alot upside there. Drabek is interesting? What would the blue jays ask for in return? i think chris snyder may also be interesting to bring in. how much would he cost |
| 12. By: tkballer22 on 01-19-2013 21:53:18 So if the Dodgers just signed Flores, that would mean that Tim Federowicz could be available. He's nothing special, but definitely a defensive-minded catcher. I would love to see us get him and either Capuano or Harang in a package deal. Federowicz came over in the Bedard deal between LA-SEA-BOS. He hasn't seen much major league time, but the 25-year old has been tabbed earlier this winter as the Dodgers backup. He hit .294 with 11 HR last year in Albuquerque, but threw out 39% of his runners with only 3 passed balls. His minor league numbers look very eerily like Dan Wilson's. I think that he would be a great addition to the pile, if anything. Seattle could sign a veteran and start FedEx in Tacoma if needed. It would be nice to see two young catchers, neither of which would be defensive liabilties,(Zunino/Federowicz) be able to split the duties so Montero can focus on DH by the end of this season. |
| 13. By: Gibbo on 01-19-2013 23:23:35 Federowicz would be a great pick up, but as he has some decent upside would you really want to pay the price when we have Zunino waiting in the wings? I would love a deal that got us Gordon, Federowicz and Capuano... But I think the price could be too high. I prefer Porcello as a pitcher to add if we are adding just one guy. I would imagine they would be happy letting Bevan be the number 5 guy with the rookies and Bonderman fighting it out to be that spot. I would also be happy with Bedard to be in that mix fighting for the number 5 spot. Even as a guy that can just give you some decent starts until he gets injured and you bring up one of the big 4. But we do need a guy to take Vargas's spot and Capuano is probably a very nice fit with limited long term commitment needed. |
| 14. By: Jason A. Churchill on 01-20-2013 00:39:43 According to MLB, Flores remains a free agent, which is why he was on the original list. But it's just because his contract hasn't gone through yet with the league office, like Napoli. Flores was signed as depth, so Federowicz isn t going anywhere unless the Dodgers get something of value. Makes no sense, like Gibbo said, since Zunino will hit the bigs in 2013. |
| 15. By: thirdbase22 on 01-20-2013 08:28:55 Lincicum |
| 16. By: gotjackzback on 01-20-2013 10:13:11 I think Matusz would be a bad idea, especially if we had to give up something in a trade. His stats looked atrocius the last time I looked. I'd be all for bringing Bedard back with the expection of getting half a season out him before one the young phenoms gets called up. He's a decent Lefty, and even tough he's kind of a 5 and divepicher, our Bullpen is a strength so, I'm not concerned about that. |
| 17. By: bunvt on 01-20-2013 10:18:23 Jason, (or anyone else), does Matusz still have some upside projected to him from his prospect days? Or given his MLB outings the past couple years has he shown what he pretty much will be? |
| 18. By: maqman on 01-20-2013 11:46:21 Federowicz would be a good get but doubtful to be available without an overpay. Romero looked good given his age (28) and contract (3 years at $7.5MM per with one option at $13.1MM with a $.6MM buyout) but he had a bad year last season and has medical issues. He he had arthroscopic elbow surgery along with platelet-rich plasma injections to both knees to help his recovery from quadriceps tendinitis at the end of last October. Capuano fills the bill for me but it depends on what he costs us talent-wise. I trust Z to get some able bodies to fill in until the farmhands show up. |
| 19. By: Jerry on 01-20-2013 12:54:27 It'll be interesting to see what type of catcher the M's sign for the backup spot. I have a feeling they'll go for a defense-oriented guy. However, the really interesting guys are the more bat-first ones. Kottaras seems like a poor-mans Jaso, and could be a similar steal. As a lefty bat, he would also make a good partner for Montero. The same can be said about Saltalamachia, although I wonder what it would take to get him. He would be a great addition, but I wouldn't want to give up anything useful for him with Montero needing to get as many ABs as possible and Zunino on the way. If he could be had for a reliever or someone who doesn't really fit the club, great. But I think that's highly unlikely. |
| 20. By: mykillmagnum on 01-20-2013 13:17:31 what about someone like taylor teegarden? i know the o's have been linked to smoak a bit this winter, i wonder if something could be worked out something with him and xavier avery.something like smoak, catricala, beaven and truinfel for teegarden, avery and a prosect. i still think there will be more deals coming up, i like the idea of either porcello or drabek, and then signing bedard on a one year deal. would shawn kelly for drabek work? or even a bigger trade of willhelmsen, luetge, nick franklin, brandon maurer, for porcello,and costellanos. you make one of those deals with the baltimore deal seems like a pretty team for now and the future. 2b ackley cf guti lf morse 1b morales 3b seager c montero dh ibanez rf saunders/wells/bay ss ryan bench two of saunders wells or bay andino teegarden rotation felix porcello iwakuma bedard ramirez it might not be that exciting, but could end up being fun in tacoma with the big three, zunino, avery, costellanos, brad miller, and romero. another name that im kind of intrested in taking a chance on is brian wilson. i know hes hurt but it seems like someone to take a chance on to bring in a veteran. |
| 21. By: Paul Martin on 01-20-2013 13:24:10 @15 sure, we will give them Triunfel, Carp, and Thames for him. They can even have Hector Noesi if they ask nicely! |
| 22. By: Jerry on 01-20-2013 15:14:41 @20 Raul Ibanez shouldn't be starting for the M's. He'll be 41 next year, and isn't the same guy he used to be. Giving up on Smoak for Ibanez would be an insanely bad decision. Ibanez should be a nice guy to have on the bench, and IF Smoak ends up as a bust next year, then he could be part of the Plan B. But if Ibanez gets more than 300 ABs next year, something went wrong. |
| 23. By: Jerry on 01-20-2013 15:23:40 In terms of pitching, the guys that interest me are Porcello and Bedard. I think M's fans are still a bit jaded on Bedard, and he receives a lot of anger that should be directed at Bill Bavasi. Bedard is actually a very consist above average starting pitcher when he can pitch. He's limited, as he can't really pitch deep into games anymore, and is only likely to be available half the year. But he'll cost very little, and is a good bet to pitch well when he's healthy. I like the idea of bring him back on a low-cost 1 year deal with incentives. Since the M's have Beavan and Noesi as plan B's, and Paxton, Hultzen, Maurer, and Walker in AAA or AA, why not? But the guy I really like is Porcello. He's a durable pitcher with a fair bit of upside, and his K rate and velocity are trending in the right direction. His peripheral stats are far better than his traditional stats, and he's clearly been hurt by playing with a terrible defense. As a groundball pitcher, he'd benefit greatly from a move to Safeco. Most importantly, he just turned 24, and won't be eligible for free agency till after 2015. Right now, he's an underrated young starter. But he has upside to turn into an excellent #2-3 pitcher. He's the guy I'd be targeting. If the M's brought in Porcello, Bedard, and Kottaras, they'd be in great shape. |
| 24. By: ripperlv on 01-20-2013 16:17:58 I would hope Pocello might be a trade possibility for Wells and Pryor. Pocello has thrown a lot of innings for someone his age (flag). Saunders I think would fit like Vargas, just a bit of an overpay I would guess. Unfortunately what the M's need is a #2, and I imagine we'll end up with a #4 or 5. I wouldn't mind a sign and trade thru Cleveland and landing Lohse (saving our 1st round draft pick) but I really don't see that happening. If we somehow ended up with Pocello and Saunders then I'd say we have an above average rotation. I think Matt Treanor would fit the bill as defensive specialist, mentor, and relatively cheap. |
| 25. By: rotoenquire on 01-20-2013 16:43:29 I don't like the idea of trading for Porcello. Why trade what is still on the way for a guy who has few arbitration years left. I would hope they stick with adding a veteran. C. Young and J. Jurrjens one fo those two I think would work. That would still be with the hopes of one of teh Big 3 making the jump this year. As to trading Smoak I would only do it if you can manage to steal a younger guy with upside. Say a J. Bradley OF, B. Brentz OF, R. De La Rosa one of them from Bos or a X. Avery OF or J, Schoop From Balt. Boston and Balt seem to be the top teams interested in Smoak. I also think Patrick Kivlehan OF Sea could be a guy who could make some impact by years end if not next year. Kid is a 5 tool kinda talent not a lot of guys are talking about. |
| 26. By: dewey on 01-20-2013 19:33:59 #22 If Raul isnt starting i have no issue with that but some one named JZ should be asked why exactly did we pay him 2.9 million? Correct?#24 Pocello 625 innings at 25 felix 1620 innings at 27 if guys are good they take the ball and give you innings thats why they call them horses. Fed might be just as good as Zunino in the end of it all he throws alot better but then again i like defense better then offense at catcher thats just me though. ALot of talk about Matuz i love him but remeber this do you get Matusz if he is pitching good? No not a chance thats why good GMS gamble on these guys some times you get 7 sometimes you get craps alot of it depends on your pro scouts and what kind of gamble the gm has in him i would take that shot myself our starting pitching stinks right now and i dont want to hear about this alledged big 4 non of them have pissed a drop at 3a but they have that word POTENTIAL in front of there name |
| 27. By: Edman on 01-20-2013 19:43:32 Kivlehan is currently a Thirdbaseman. I haven't heard of any talk to move him to the outfield. He'll be fun to watch, but I'm not sure where he ultimately ends up. There are a few kids in Arizona who could bloom. The good news about the Jaso trade is that Jack still has prospects he can deal to upgrade elsewhere. It's a bit far-fetched to think he could get Salty from Boston, but Jack still has lots of cards left to help him upgrade. |
| 28. By: Mackie on 01-20-2013 20:21:19 I hope Porcello's peripheral stats are better than his traditional stats, because his traditional stats don't look so great and some are trending the wrong way. He had a WHIP of 1.531 last year, and his WHIP has gone up each year since he was a rookie. He may be getting better at not giving up HRs, and his strikeout ratio may be increasing. But he is getting worse at giving up hits. He gave up 226 hits in 176 innings pitched last season (and I think we already have some other guys who could probably do that). If the Mariners do acquire him, I hope they don't have to give up much to get him. But if Zduriencik is looking for a young starting pitcher, as JAC pointed out, Porcello may indeed be a serious trade target. If they do get him, and if he does well, I'd more than gladly eat crow. At this point they might have some better options, but maybe Porcello is one of their best chances. If they're thinking about signing an older FA SP, Bedard hasn't thrown more than 130 innings since 2008. If they could bring him in on a make-good deal, that might not be bad. But Kevin Millwood arguably had a better season than Bedard did last year... Overpay for Saunders? I think he would be better than Millwood or Bedard. |
| 29. By: dewey on 01-20-2013 20:28:26 Is Salty any better then Montero? I dont think so same defense and Montero in my eyes will hit as much are more then Salty only diffrence Sa,ty has played longer neither is a good defensive guy. The list of catchers isnt good i would trade a decent prospect for a solid defnesive guy myself it all starts and ends with your pitcher and catcher and are catcher isnt that good period. Bedard was released last aug no team picked him up i think that tells you something.Also Smoaks value doesnt get you top 2-3 prospects from other orgs they still have hope Smoak has had a chance and hasnt produced yet he might though according to some not me |
| 30. By: rotoenquire on 01-20-2013 21:27:30 Patrick Kivlehan is at 3B right now. However he has solid speed and an above average arm. With Seagar at 3rd I see the M's moving him to the OF. He was a DBack at Rutgers. He also won the Tripple Crown in the Big East. |
| 31. By: elliott on 01-20-2013 21:44:56 Jarrod Saltalmacchia and Jesus Montero shared the same OPS+ of 95 last season. I would not trade four years of Justin Smoak, who has a career OPS+ of 92 (but only 87 in 2012), for one year Jarrod Saltalamacchia, who has a career OPS+ of 89. |
| 32. By: Edman on 01-20-2013 22:19:07 roto, I know all that. But, they generally don't move minor leaguers off a corner infield position, until they sure they can't play the position, or need to move him due to crowding at the position. |
| 33. By: Hackinator on 01-21-2013 06:59:34 In re to Kivlehan- he only played his senior year- his rookie year was his second as a fulltime player...huge upside if he stays healthy. |
| 34. By: Panhead55 on 01-21-2013 08:13:08 Count me on the Porcello bandwagon. He has done his learning in the majors, and with 691 major league innings under his belt, he has gone through his adjustment periods and is ready for a breakout. He is a month younger than Paxton and 11 months older than Hultzen. Give the ground baller a better infield and watch him grow! |
| 35. By: KingFelix on 01-21-2013 09:14:22 I would like to see us add a Joe Saunders until either Hultzen or Paxton is ready in July and you know someone in the rotation will have some arm issues during the season. Also, I would hate to see us give up Smoak this offseason, lets take this season and see if Smoak, Ackley and Motero can have a break through season with less pressure on them to produce due to adding two MOTO bats in Morales and Morse. Another positive is that we have kept all of our prospects and with another year in the minors we might have what it takes for a deadline deal or next offseason to land Stanton via trade, with the addition of another solid 2013 draft. |
| 36. By: maqman on 01-21-2013 11:24:25 Dewey you forgot The Incredible Hultz spent time in AAA this past season, not that he did very well there. Porcello signed for $5.1MM two or three days ago so if we trade for him we give the Tigers some payroll relief, which along with a good back end reliever and another possibly promising piece might be enough to land him. His WAR has gone 2.0 2.7 2.9 the past three seasons. The Tigers are not about to trade Nick Castellanos, he's their best prospect I believe, even though he's blocked at 3B. They will find a place for him. I think I saw that Saunders is looking for a three year contract, if so he's not worth it IMO. |
| 37. By: Docmilo on 01-21-2013 12:25:58 55Pan, don't you think that we have better arms in the system that Porcello? He's just going to get more expensive every year and cost us prospects on top of it. I would be much happier way over paying for Lohse on a 1 year deal and tell him we won't offer a Qualifying Offer next year. Heck, give him $15 or $16 mill for one year w/an option. Let him build value in Safeco for next year where he won't cost a draft pick and it's all good for him. Then next year Paxton and Hultzen should be more likely to be ready. This year it's: Felix Iwakuma Lohse Ramirez Bonderman/Hultzen/Paxton/Beavan/Noesie(LOL) winner of spring training battle. Next year it's: Felix Iwakuma Hultzen Ramirez Paxton Porcello cost's $, prospects or bullpen arms. I would prefer to keep the prospects and bullpen arms for a mid-season trade to shore up our weaknesses towards our playoff run! |
| 38. By: Edman on 01-21-2013 12:36:31 Docmilo, good luck with getting Lohse to take a one year deal. He's a Boras client, so he'll hold out for a multi-year deal. I doubt that Jack would trade top prospects for Porcello. He might included Maurer, because he already has big three, but I do agree that Porcello should not be a top priority at this moment. If Jack can get him for a reasonable price, of course he should look into it. But, there are guys out there, Millwood included, who could come in and hold down a spot in the rotation, while waiting for one of the big three to emerge. |
| 39. By: Paul Martin on 01-21-2013 17:34:52 Bedard gets a minor league deal with Houston, scratch him off your list! |
| 40. By: dewey on 01-21-2013 21:10:43 #37 Shore up our weeknesses for playoff run ? Really Really?#36 Read again i said none had pissed a drop...Sign Lohse doesnt sound awful if the price is right its time to show progress and he would help. Lets not keeping trolling the bottum of the barrel if we have some money left lets try and improve with good pitching. |
| 41. By: tkeister22 on 01-21-2013 22:48:43 Lookout Landing is reporting that the Mariners signed Paulino for $1m, with a small bonus if he makes it out of Spring Training |
| 42. By: Edman on 01-21-2013 23:54:24 Paulino seems like a good get. He's a decent hitter for a catcher, knows his role, and won't be difficult to replace when Zunino is ready. |
| 43. By: Paul Martin on 01-22-2013 05:55:05 @41 I would still like them to get Shoppach, maybe they can sign both and sort it out in spring training. They are going to need another catcher for the spring anyway... |
| 44. By: Edman on 01-22-2013 09:31:18 Paul Martin, I'm not sure what the value of bringing in Shoppach would be, other than your lack of confidence in Paulino. Shoppach would probably want more than what Paulino signed for. I'm sure Jack looked into it. I don't know that they need another catcher in Spring Training. They have minor league catchers who can fill that role early in camp. If Jack wants to sign another catcher, I wouldn't be upset, but I don't see a need. |
| 45. By: sexymarinersfan on 01-22-2013 09:51:39 I've heard that Shoppach is looking for a multiple year deal. I don't think he fits into our criteria. I'd still like to find another border line AAA/MLB guy like Chris Gimenez or Pat Borders when he was with Seattle. |
| 46. By: maqman on 01-22-2013 11:15:54 Paulino gets $1MM if he's on the big club but the source I saw suggested he was probably going to be a AAA reserve. Given the extra bats they have signed it seems to me it would be better if he was the backup on the big club. If he's in Tacoma it would seem he'll be backing up Zunino until/if Zunino gets to The Show. I wouldn't be surprised if they do sign another catcher. I see the Dodgers are going into partnership with Time/Warner Cable after the coming season and supposedly most of the income won't be shared with other clubs. What surprised me is the Dodgers have been getting $40MM a season from Fox and the M's are reported getting $45MM a season now according to Wendy Thurm at Fangraphs. The M's have one of the better current deals now, before the additional $25MM per club is paid out from the new national media sale. They should be able to spend more in this and coming seasons, unless they emulate Jeffry Loria in Miami and just stick it in their pockets. MLBPA is on his case, I hope they put the squeze on him, he's bad for the game. |
| 47. By: Edman on 01-22-2013 11:32:49 I think the only way Paulino ends up at AAA is if he completely stinks in Spring Training, or Zunino plays out of his mind. There are some catchers that will end up signing minor league contracts, so maybe someone of that type gets signed. Loria is bad for the game, but unless the MLPBA sues him, I'm not sure what can be done. Anyone who thinks the M's are screwed up, only needs to look at the Marlins situation. |
| 48. By: Paul Martin on 01-22-2013 20:10:32 Wow, who would you rather have, Delmon Young for $750,000 or Raul Ibanez for 2.5 million (with another $500,000 in incentives)??? I realize Young has some demons, but he is only 27 years old! I think the veteran leadership thing is over rated, especially if he doesn't produce on the field. Wedge has also shown a tendency to favor the veteran players, even when other players are more deserving (Miguel Olivo had how many at bats last year? And why was he getting time at DH?). If Ibanez isn't hitting, we better not see his name on the lineup card more than twice a week! At least you guys can chant RAUUUUUUUUL every time he comes to the plate... |
| 49. By: Docmilo on 01-22-2013 20:37:59 Edman, Lohse isn't sexy and he costs a draft pick. Pay a buck forty on the dollar and tell him we won't offer a qualifying offer next year and he can sign a reasonable contract after a good year at Safeco. For the cost of a draft pick he's going to sign under a buck on the dollar and coming to Washington with no state income tax he gets a few more buck in the pocket 81 games on the year. It could make sense. Boras took Beltre to Boston to build value and get him a good deal in Texas. Why not Lohse in Seattle? |
| 50. By: Docmilo on 01-22-2013 20:40:28 Oh, besides. Add a SP like Lohse and this team is competing with Oakland for 2013. (Texas and Anaheim battle it out for 3rd. You heard it here first.) |
| 51. By: Edman on 01-22-2013 22:39:33 Glad you're not my accountant, Docmilo. Lohse is nearing the end of his career. He might (slim chance) take a deal like that for a contender to win a ring. But really, would you come to Seattle for that? He's going to want as many years as he can get on a contract, and some team is going to pay it to him. To overpay on a contract, plus lose a draft pick, I just can't see that it makes sense. It's just my opinion, but I see no way it's gonna happen. And, Paul Martin, Raul was brought to Seattle for his veteran leadership, something Delmon Young would not bring. One of the young guys in a recent interview mentioned that they didn't have a veteran player in the clubhouse that they could get advice from. He mentioned that for himself, how valuable he thought it was. There's a reason Young has lasted this long on the free agent market. Who cares if he's 27? Raul won't be expected to be in Seattle more than this year. Do we really need to have future options on Young? |
| 52. By: Paul Martin on 01-23-2013 07:04:24 @51 Typical Edman answer to my question. You just don't get it do you??? Here is my point: 1. Delmon Young could have been had for MUCH LESS money than Raul Ibanez AND will out perform Ibanez THIS YEAR. It has nothing to do with future years or future value. At the end of THIS YEAR, we can compare the two players numbers and it won't even be close. 2. Players that are not performing only have so much influence on a team, regardless of their history in the game. How much veteran leadership did Griffey provide that last year??? 3. The veteran leadership that the team needs will come from Michael Morse and Kendrys Morales. They are veterans that will PERFORM ON THE FIELD. 3. I don't think Ibanez has much of anything left in the tank. The guy turns 41 in June, and I don't care how good you take care of your body, he is old! 4. Ibanez would be ideal if he only starts 2 or 3 games (at the very most) a week,and situationally pinch hits on other nights. However, history tells us the Wedge won't do this. He is going to roll Ibanez out on the field much more than this. My example of his use of Olivo in the lineup (even at DH!!!) when the guy sucks and just about anyone else would have been an upgrade is a perfect example of this. 5. I would have even preferred not signing Delmon Young or Ibanez, and JUST GIVING THAT PLAYING TIME TO CASPER WELLS. We would have been better off going that route. As it stands now, Wells is going to have an even harder time than last year seeing the field, and we may have to trade him on the cheap and watch him develop with another team, a recurring trend with this team. I hope I am wrong, and Ibanez is used sparingly, but get back to me in May or June and we can revisit this one. |
| 53. By: Edman on 01-23-2013 08:28:04 And typical Paul Martin, if you want to get snarky. 1. Not your money. Not every move is about money. Is there some great player the Mariners are missing out on? How do you know what Young was asking for when Ibanez signed? 2. Players who aren't performing only works if they aren't performing. You've decided, based on youth only, that Ibanez won't perform. A fact not in evidence. 3. At the time Ibanez was signed, was it known that Morse and Morales would be available? 3A. What you think isn't relative. And you think Delmon Young is a great choice? Ohhhhhhh, I know, because he's less expensive. 4. Really, Wedge had a team filled with young players who were ripping the cover off the ball? I must have missed those performances. You know that Wedge is going to throw him into the lineup? Olivo was one of the few power bats in a weak lineup. You seem to know a lot about events that haven't happened yet. 5. Casper "I need a platoon partner" Wells? And, one of those who struggled, that perhaps could have used some veteran leadership in the clubhouse? Not all things are about money. We'll see how it all works out, but ripping the M's for not signing Young is not a great idea. He's been out there this long and signed for $700 k for a reason. Ibanex had a higher OBP and OPS than Young. So, the only thing he is for a bench player, is cheaper. The M's can spend their money any way they choose. |
| 54. By: sexymarinersfan on 01-23-2013 09:36:23 I gotta agree with Edman on this one. I'd much rather have Raul and his veteran leadership then a punk like Young. Edman said it, there's a reason he's so cheap and lasted this long on the open market. Delmon Young, PASS!! |
| 55. By: Wishhiker on 01-23-2013 11:18:31 do we even know what the incentives are on Youngs contract? Its $750k + incentives. |
| 56. By: maqman on 01-23-2013 11:45:32 I think I saw someplace Young could earn up to $200,000 in incentives. Personally I prefer Raul to him by a bunch but I only expect Raul to be a bench bat and fill in fielder. |
| 57. By: Paul Martin on 01-23-2013 16:29:12 @53, @54, @55, @56: After my original post, I did read Young can make around $3 million more in incentives. No idea how easy they are to reach? While I would have preferred a cheap Young over an expensive Ibanez, my bigger point was how much I didn't want the Ibanez signing at all. I think Casper Wells is a better player and I would rather see him get those at bats. My biggest fear is that Wedge is going to play Ibanez almost everyday, even if he doesn't produce. Also not convinced Ibanez will be happy with a spot start here and there and a main pinch hitter off the bench. If Ibanez is batting .220 and playing everyday while other more productive players sit, then we have a problem. Am I the only one that sees Wedge over using him??? If so, I hope I am wrong... |
| 58. By: Wishhiker on 01-23-2013 21:08:02 I don't think the plan was ever for Ibanez to pay every day. When he was signed, I wasn't really opposed. Once they traded for Morse it seemed Ibanez was unnecessary though. There are still a lot of ways the roster can shake out including the possibility for injury because that happens in the spring even without WBC play. Young wouldn't fit really any better than Ibanez though, so why fuss? |
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