|By Jason A. Churchill||By 12-19-2012|
|1. By: jordan on 12-19-2012 14:41:17|
Smoak has a little time to prove himself. It has to be now though. What happens if Montero and Smoak are playing well Jason? Do they still ship one of them off midseason?
|2. By: Jimabbottsrighthand on 12-19-2012 14:42:02|
The last line is perfect...I'm not looking for a division win next year, but it would be great if they were competitive and fun to watch.
|3. By: docsmith on 12-19-2012 14:43:17|
|4. By: eknpdx on 12-19-2012 14:44:49|
Montero and Smoak have an option left IIRC? If so, they struggle and it's still another season to try and get value out of them.
|5. By: MarinerCoug on 12-19-2012 14:46:04|
This opens A LOT of doors on both the FA front but also the trade front. There may be a team out there who believes his late-season transformation was real and therefore willing to take on Smoak as a "significant" part of a package...
Not to mention Mariner $$$ can be more easily spent in FA, which is also now an option.
Well done Z, now let's see 1-2 more!
|6. By: PositivePaul on 12-19-2012 14:47:46|
Love the deal. Such a no-brainer that even a genius like me called it three hours before it happened LOL!
Count me in on the Edwin Jackson bandwagon.
|7. By: rth1986 on 12-19-2012 14:53:56|
Very fair swap. It should be easy to replace Vargas' production. I don't think Morales necessarily pushes out Smoak or Montero, but it adds the right amount of pressure on them. I'd like to see the Mariners add a quality starting outfielder and a mid-rotation starter, and then I think this team could reach .500 in 2013.
|8. By: aerichner on 12-19-2012 15:10:26|
Absolutely love the deal. I think we got all we could out of Jason Vargas at a relatively cheap price (I mean his production and not in terms of trade value).
While I wouldnt mind Edwin Jackson at all Id still like Shaun Marcum on a 1-2 year deal with taking a flyer on Francisco Liriano also on my mind. Marcum is still my #1 option. I'd avoid Lohse. I'd be happy with Jackson but I wouldnt love the 4 year deal he's probably about to get.
More moves on the way!! Jack's a mothereffin ninja.
|9. By: pmiller1129 on 12-19-2012 15:11:40|
Is it possible that Morales could play right field? We could still have Smoak, Montero, Morales and Zunino all in the batting order depending on Morales playing in right and Montero at DH. Hopefully Smoak hits like he did in September.
|10. By: masonb on 12-19-2012 15:18:48|
I don't know if you'd want Morales playing in the OF. Have you seen the guy? I mean he's not exactly limber. I think you let them all duke it out in spring training and then since you have some options on the younger guys send one down, or this could be the precursor to another deal.
I'd love to see Marcum sign here, but don't really know what kind of deal he's looking for. Could he be signed for less than Vargas? Liriano: meh. He's been bad after TJ.
|11. By: jordan on 12-19-2012 15:31:10|
The important thing to remember is that Morales is a 1 year deal. So you can play Montero at C Smoak 1b morales DH most of this year. You can get those guys at bats. Where it gets tricky is when you factor in Zunino. If you want to bring back Morales, then two things have happened. 1. Smoak busted out 2. You want to trade Smoak or Montero for a bigger piece.
The point is Smoak has time to prove himself. But it has to be now.
|12. By: jgstecker on 12-19-2012 15:42:15|
Does a package of Montero, Walker, and Paxton open talks with the Marlins?
|13. By: Rampageoholics on 12-19-2012 15:49:28|
I doubt it. Where would Montero play in the NL?
Good move by Z. Interesting to hear him say that he has one more offer on the table that he is considering. You think that it's related to this move? Any guesses?
|14. By: jgthompson21 on 12-19-2012 16:02:01|
@13. I hope its not the rumor on twitter about montero to texas for holland. That wouldnt be a good deal imo
|15. By: jordan on 12-19-2012 16:02:34|
#13 I think this has bourn written all over it.
|16. By: jordan on 12-19-2012 16:04:11|
I don't think the ORG. is worried about Montero...He just turned 23. He is the future at DH or maybe 1B. This move puts major pressure of Smoak, not Montero.
|17. By: marinersfan424 on 12-19-2012 16:05:00|
Shannon Drayer just said she thinks its more of a free-agent type offer. If today has anything to do with it, I'm guessing it's pitching (Shawn Marcum, anyone?).
Could they possibly sign Swisher AND Bourn now, hope to trade Gutierrez for some pitching and throw some money in? Guti doesn't have a ton of value right now, though. Dodgers might like him as a 4th OF for Capuano or Harang? (They did draft him, after all).
Love this move, sad to see Vargas go though. Seemed to be a great guy and a solid player. I'm hoping for some more action soon!
|18. By: Edman on 12-19-2012 16:05:02|
Good deal for both teams. They both get what they need.
But please, can we stop the Stanton to Seattle stuff? Unless Felix is part of a deal, he's not coming here.
Ask yourself, why would the Marlins give up their only ticket draw, for less than another in return?
|19. By: marinersfan424 on 12-19-2012 16:06:02|
@18 - Agreed. Stanton is a pipe-dream and he makes league minimum. Not happening.
|20. By: Mackie on 12-19-2012 16:08:10|
I'd guess the next move is related to this one, and will either be for the hitter or the SP as Jason suggests. It could indeed be for Bourn, although it seems to me they still need someone with some power for RF... Maybe they would put Gutierrez out there, who knows.
I like this trade. Like Vargas, Morales is not a world-beater or anything close to it, but he's a pretty solid player and the M's offense needs the help. I also like that it gives Smoak and Montero some more competition.
Montero for Holland? Ugh, don't do it, Z.
|21. By: kevin_ess on 12-19-2012 16:10:45|
#17 Swisher wants nothing to do with Seattle.
|22. By: Edman on 12-19-2012 16:14:14|
Kevin, please do tell how you know what Swisher wants? I'm betting that he wants money, and if Seattle offers enough, he'd be in Seattle.
|23. By: rotoenquire on 12-19-2012 16:14:18|
Great deal!! Both are 1 year guys and the M's could use the ability to keep him for one year with an offer or get a pick.. I think the M's should make a push to sign him long term. This in no way says that Bourne is headed too the M's. I think the M's have one more trade left in them for another bat to play the OF. JackZ is not done yet, however if it is going to be prospects for proven bat the M's will be overpaying. Say, Paxton, Hultzen, Capps, Franklin for Upton. Or it could be a simple trade of a LH bullpen pitcher for Boesch.
|24. By: marinersfan424 on 12-19-2012 16:15:39|
@21 - Drayer said on the radio within the last hour that the national media outlets saying Swisher wasn't coming to Seattle might not be accurate. She said she had 2 sources close to Swisher who said he likes Seattle and would be open to coming to Seattle. Whether they want him or he wants to come to Seattle or not, sounds like it's still a real possibility, maybe low probability.
|25. By: baseballman on 12-19-2012 16:16:32|
Actually kevin_ess, from everything that I've read, Seattle wants nothing to do with Swisher.
|26. By: kevin_ess on 12-19-2012 16:18:14|
I would venture to guess that Swisher saying he had no intention of visiting the Mariners might serve as an indicator.
|27. By: marinersfan424 on 12-19-2012 16:18:26|
I expect one more legitimate bat (Morse, Bourn, Swisher, etc.) rather than settling on Boesch or someone of that caliber to be what Jack is happy with. Again, players have to want to come to Seattle or be acquired via trade. I hate the idea of trading Franklin if he can handle SS since it seems there's a good chance the bat really plays.
|28. By: kevin_ess on 12-19-2012 16:19:35|
@25 That may be the case too!
|29. By: Edman on 12-19-2012 16:23:46|
Kevin, perhaps you should read more carefully when viewing MLBRumors. Swisher never said he had no intention of visiting Seattle. What was written, is that Seattle was not on his "scheduled" visits. Not a thing about what his feelings were, one way or the other.
|30. By: kevin_ess on 12-19-2012 16:28:17|
Always enjoy your vitriol. And actually it was a coversation with someone affiliated with the club.
|31. By: kevin_ess on 12-19-2012 16:29:28|
But hey, if we land Swisher, I won't complain.
|32. By: kevin_ess on 12-19-2012 16:33:12|
Always enjoy your vitriol. And actually it was a coversation with someone affiliated with the club.
|33. By: Edman on 12-19-2012 16:39:32|
If indeed the Indians offered Swisher $50 million/4 years, Seattle could compete with that offer, if they wanted to. This move certainly gives Jack more options. I'd be all for adding Bourne and Swisher, along with Jackson or Marcum. That would be a substantial improvement.
I'd love for Guti to return, but his health is a big concern.
|34. By: tonydif on 12-19-2012 16:43:03|
With Vargas gone, are we not short of Lefty SP's?
Aren't Felix, Iwakuma,Beaven, Ramirez,Noesi all RightHanders?
Furbush as a starter?
My guess is there is a lefty SP coming soon....who is available?
|35. By: tonydif on 12-19-2012 16:45:14|
Bedard again, for 1 year?
|36. By: kevin_ess on 12-19-2012 17:01:01|
I think we should hop in the ol' station wagon and drop Noesi off in the forest.
|37. By: rjfrik on 12-19-2012 17:04:13|
I love how I suggested this trade this morning and now it has happened. Too funny
|38. By: Mackie on 12-19-2012 17:04:47|
I'm betting the next move, if it's a trade, will surprise me as much as this one did!
I think that just because Heyman doesn't think Swisher will get a deal because the M's would have to give up a #12 pick to sign him doesn't necessarily mean they won't sign him.
Sure, it's probably a long shot, but I would love to see them sign him, enough so that I will not believe he isn't going to consider signing with the M's or that they won't consider signing him until I see something with a link to some actual quotes.
|39. By: mykillmagnum on 12-19-2012 17:14:01|
What about Wilhelmson, luetge and nick Franklin to Detroit for porcello and nick castellanos?
|40. By: whereswoody on 12-19-2012 17:22:33|
@37. not that funny.
@34. Paxton, Hultzen, and Fernadez are all about a year away. I think if they go after a lefty in the free agency market, they will try and target someone like Millwood for a one year deal.
|41. By: baseballman on 12-19-2012 17:30:47|
Dang woody, who pissed in your cheerios?
|42. By: John_S on 12-19-2012 18:14:13|
Stanton? Yes please!
I would give the marlins a list of 10 players and tell them pick any 4 or 5 and start from there.
Ackley/Seager, Hultzen, Franklin, Romero, Paxton anyone???
|43. By: aerichner on 12-19-2012 19:11:34|
Anyone? Yes, everyone BUT THE MARLINS.
Question, lets say we dont get Bourn -I dont want to lose the pick for him, I would for Swish- who leads off for this team? Any other FA out there worth bringing in? Anyone to target in a trade?
Anyone into Cody Ross on a 3 year deal for Cody Ross between 7-8M? Wouldnt mind him if Swisher/Ms isnt a match.
|44. By: rotoenquire on 12-19-2012 20:25:02|
Why in the heck would you want to trade your entire future for one player? I mentioned Upton more as a joke on an overpay.
M's are doing the right thing. get players who are at a good deal and not toss in the future. Keep it up JackZ.
|45. By: rocketdawg31 on 12-19-2012 20:47:42|
I don't think a Jesus Montero-for-Derek Holland trade passes my smell test.
There's very little reason for the Rangers to make that deal, although Holland is probably their current #4-5 starter and doesn't constitute a huge loss for them.
I am thinking Jack Z has hie eyes set on a free agent like Shawn Marcum or Kyle Lohse, maybe Liriano.
But I'm not really seeing Edwin Jackson, for some unclarifiable reason. Maybe it's because the results have never matched his stuff, not sure. But it doesn't feel right.
I can live with a Felix!-Marcum-Iwakuma-Ramirez-Beavan rotation to start the year- because any of those names beyond Felix can be moved around when top prospect arms are ready to audition for the rotation.
|46. By: Rudolf on 12-19-2012 21:51:52|
Chris Capuano could probably be had for Logan Bawcom and a song. Or maybe Ted Lilly. I could see that before a Lohse/Ejax signing. Not that I'd prefer it over Ejax or Marcum.
Cody Ross is a decent get for 3 years. Certainly better than nothing.
Montero, Smoak, Jaso, and Morales should be able to handle C, 1B, and DH between the four of them. That's about 450-500 ABs each if they all earn them. Sounds pretty good.
Would the rangers consider Jaso for Holland? I wouldn't want to give up Montero. He would be a beast in Arlington.
|47. By: rotoenquire on 12-19-2012 21:55:04|
I have mentioned Liriano in the past.. A great by low guy, same with D. Young..
|48. By: rotoenquire on 12-19-2012 22:00:20|
Orioles have been mentioned with interest in Smoak. Could a deal be made to add Schoop from the O's? Schoop would be a GREAT ADD!!
|49. By: John_S on 12-19-2012 22:02:17|
@44. You're not trading your entire system. You would still have zunino, walker, miller, Maurer. The system is strong enough to give up multiple prospects. It seem like people think that every prospect will be contributors in the majors when that is not the case. It's up Jack to determine which ones he sees will contribute and which ones who are well though of but are likely to either be fringe guys or guys who won't make it up.
As for Stanton. Your talking about an 80 power guy whose power will play in Safeco. he's young and under cost control. Would the Marlins trade him now? More than likely not, but he is the bat that you overpay for if the opportunity presents itself.
|50. By: Shonn71 on 12-19-2012 22:47:51|
Everyone is leaving out the biggest potential problem if the Mariners were actually able to somehow someway acquire Stanton.....
We would be constantly bombarded with Baker columns explaining why the Mariners need to deal him while he still has "peak trade value" before hitting the free agent market. He'd only be under club control for FOUR years!! MUST... TRADE HIM.... NOW!!!!
|51. By: Edman on 12-19-2012 23:24:55|
Stanton is as likely to be in Seattle, as the world coming to an end on the 22nd. I bet neither happen.
|52. By: Justin Hendrix on 12-20-2012 01:42:08|
Or as luck would have it the M's would indeed land Stanton just before the end of the world.
I don't see Stanton being dealt before next offseason. The fact is 4 years of Stanton wouldn't net the Marlins much more than 3 years. There are probably only 3 or 4 teams that have the minor league system to land Stanton. Not only do you have to give up 5 of your top prospects, but you must have the depth and talent to be able to absorb such a tremendous hit. Whenever I think of the haul it would take to land Stanton I harken back to the Saints move to land Ricky Williams. Obviously Giancarlo Stanton is no Ricky Williams, but the effect of trading 5 of your top prospects in baseball can set you back a decade. Look no further than the Mariners under Bill Bavasi. Nevertheless if the Marlins would trade Stanton for the package mentioned above, I'm in. Trout and Harper aside, Stanton is also the one guy I would deal King Felix for.
You think the winter meetings were crazy this year? Just imagine starting next year when every team in baseball is going to be asking for Stanton.
The teams that realistically have the talent and could absorb the blow would be the Cardinals, Mariners, Twins, and the Rangers. A team like Tampa Bay has the talent, but you also need a decent amount of cash to pair Stanton with other good players capable of winning a World Series immediately. Any team that lands Stanton will not see much talent coming up to the bigs from their system, and thus must have the cash to land additional players.
|53. By: rotoenquire on 12-20-2012 08:08:07|
Keep your FA and trade dream in reality. FA high point would be LaRoche and or D. Young. What also could be out there Howell and Liriano. For trades Boesch for a LHP or Reimold from Balt for Smoak and a minor leaguer.
|54. By: dewey on 12-20-2012 10:50:21|
Good move a run producer who does produce!I like it now go get us another outfield bat and we might have a shot at 3rd.I like what Edman said can we forget about Stanton Miami has made it very clear he isnt going anywhere. Who takes Vargas spot? Do they moveeveryone up a hole and go with a kid our does JZ go ou=t and get a trade our free agent is the real question?
|55. By: maqman on 12-20-2012 11:16:10|
The Nats, Tigers and Dodgers all need relief help. Capps and Pryor have years of team control left and have played in The Show and we could take the hit fairly easily. If LaRoche resigns with D.C. then Morse could be available. The Dodgers have too many major league arms and Capuano might be available. Victor Martinez might be surplus to requirements in Detroit. We can throw in some scraps if need be.
Morales agent is Boras, he will become a free agent at the end of next season unless we pay the full market rate to keep him. Making him a qualifying offer will bring us a draft pick if he has a decent year and I think he will.
It's amazing how fast Z became a genius again. The team should be signing him to an extension.
They might consider trying to convert The Bartender or Furbush to starters during spring training, just to see how they do. They can easily put them back in the bullpen if they don't show promise.
|56. By: Shawnuel on 12-20-2012 11:44:25|
Victor Martinez is a DH/1B/C who can't really play 1B or catch. No thanks. We have plenty like him already, none of whom sat out all of last season.
|57. By: masonb on 12-20-2012 12:34:51|
I'd think Morse would be pretty redundant at this point. He's not really a good option to have in the OF. Not to mention that trading Pryor or Capps for him is a stupid idea. I'd be interested in including one of those guys in a deal to Colorado for one of their OF's (Fowler/Cargo).
|58. By: Mackie on 12-20-2012 12:58:18|
FWIW, Edwin Jackson was signed by the Cubs.
Re. Morse, I think if they are going to go for more hitting now, they might want to look at a corner OF rather than yet another 1B/DH type.
But also, @57, if we're talking trading for Fowler, I'm definitely on board there, as I feel he is a special enough talent, and preferable to have in CF over a FA like Bourn.
|59. By: Ballard Locks on 12-20-2012 14:22:35|
What would it take to bring in Dexter Fowler? He is still under club control for three more seasons, and half the price of Bourn.
|60. By: mazono on 12-20-2012 14:37:01|
59: start with Hultzen and go from there is my guess.
|61. By: Jerry on 12-20-2012 16:04:30|
The Morales addition sets up the M's for a real nice set of moves. The M's and Tigers are perfectly set up for a trade. They need a closer, we need help in the rotation and OF.
Move 1: trade Wilhelmsen and Leutge to DET for Rick Porcello and Brennan Boesch
Move 2: sign Jose Valverde, Francisco Liriano, and Grady Sizemore
Move 3: talk to the Yankees about Curtis Granderson. If they do decide to go after Michael Bourn, they will need to dump Granderson's contract. He would be a good addition if the price is right. He seems incredibly undervalued right now.
Porcello is a breakout candidate, and playing with the M's infield defense would dramatically improve his numbers even if he maintains the status quo. Boesch and Sizemore are both lottery tickets. Valverde isn't a great closer, but he'll be cheap and affordable coming off a terrible season. He needs a one-year deal and a chance to close to improve his value. The M's could use a veteran reliever to replace Wilhelmsen and hold down the fort until Capps or Pryor takes over (which could easily happen by mid-season).
Liriano is another crap shoot who should be available on a one-year contract. Ideally, they could include a team option. If he works out, great. If he pitches well and Hultzen/Paxton/Maurer are ready soon, they can trade him. If he sucks, no big loss. The opening day rotation would be Felix, Porcello, Iwakuma, Ramirez, and Liriano. Not too shabby.
|62. By: Jason A. Churchill on 12-20-2012 16:16:26|
I don't like taking the risk on Porcello for five years of Wilhelmsen and Luetge. If Both relievers are available, the Mariners can do better. If they want a SP, spend a little money and get one.
|63. By: Juan Valdez on 12-20-2012 17:30:07|
Anyone have a scouting report on Porcello? I sure wouldn't give up Wilhelmsen and Luetge for him if that's what being talked about. Seems like an awful lot. I really hope they keep the bullpen intact. I think it'll be lights out this year.
|64. By: VikingArthur on 12-20-2012 19:14:39|
Porcello for Wilhemsen? Sign me up for that. Porcello is a 23 year old sinker baller who pitched in front of some of the worst infields I have ever seen. Getting a guy who could be a solid starter (Vargasesque) for a spare part bullpen arm is a no brainer.
I am still mystified by some people's obsession with Wilhemsen? He is a guy who throws 50 pitches a week, they just happen to be in the 9th inning. He is just another guy who throws hard, will get some saves for 2-3 years and then blow his arm out and be nothing... anytime you can get legit talent at a real position (SP or a bat) for a reliever...you do it...ESPECIALLY considering closers have little to no value for a team who has no chance to contend.
|65. By: slamcactus on 12-20-2012 19:59:05|
Seriously not getting your obsession with Boesch, Jerry. If the Ms wanted a mediocre bat who can't field who played on the Tigers last year, Delmon Young is more or less freely available.
|66. By: Mackie on 12-20-2012 20:30:02|
I think Porcello would be fine as long as the M's didn't have to give up much for him in terms of value.
Taking a look at his numbers, after a pretty good rookie season in 2009 he has declined a bit each season. WHIP is not the end-all, but in 2012 his was 1.531, or 9 baserunners in 6 innings. Whether Porcello is a breakout candidate or not, we already have some guys who can pitch like that. We have a guy, Blake Beavan, who was picked ten picks ahead of Porcello in the draft in 2007 and who has been unimpressive enough to earn the criticism of many of us... yet his numbers (albeit in a smaller sample size) are comparable to Porcello's... I think he probably has at least as much chance to break out as Porcello does.
I'm hoping Z isn't thinking of giving up any of our top prospects for Porcello. Give up a reliever or two? As said VikingArthur suggests, in terms of value, that might be something to consider. But also, as Jason said in #62, if we need a starting pitcher, go out and spend some money on one... and I see Shaun Marcum, Francisco Liriano, Kyle Lohse and a few others are still out there.
Same with Boesch, if he cost basically nothing in trade he might not be a bad get, if the M's try other things first and have no luck. How about let's just not trade with the Tigers?
|67. By: Juan Valdez on 12-20-2012 22:05:39|
The differing opinions about Porcello are why I asked if anyone has a true scouting report on him. His numbers are available, but I don't know anything about him except that he was a first-round pick, obviously rushed to the majors, and that he's still young.
|68. By: Juan Valdez on 12-20-2012 22:12:48|
It seems like there are a number of lesser starting pitcher types still available on the free agent market. If Porcello isn't a difference maker, I think I'd prefer to keep our bullpen intact and save our prospects.
|69. By: Mackie on 12-21-2012 00:13:54|
Yes, I ought to look at scouting reports on the guy too, JuanV. Numbers never really tell the whole story. It just makes me wonder about Porcello when I see that in four years his numbers suggest he has sort of settled into a pattern of mediocrity. But there must be something lots of people see in him, and given that he is only going to turn 24 soon, he still has lots of time to figure things out. Looks to me like there are some questions and concerns, though...
|70. By: Adam B. on 12-21-2012 01:53:29|
Wilhelmsen for Porcello straight up? No thanks.
I'd be willing to trade someone like a Stephen Pryor for him, but I think guys like Shawn Marcaum and Francisco Liriano could provide similar value without having to give up any cheap talent.
|71. By: marinermutt on 12-21-2012 06:48:43|
If we are going to trade any of our relievers, I hope it is in a package for a corner OF bat. I'm not comfortable going with Guti, Saunders, Bay/Wells combo.
I do like the idea of looking at Sizemore. His numbers have declined the past few years but that could all be injury related. But of all the available FA, him and Liriano in my view have the most potential to bust out and go beyond expectations. Problem with Sizemore is he is more of a DH/OF now and we already have too many DH's. I don't know if his knee can take playing 140 games in LF. Problem with Liriano is he is really a 5 -6 inning pitcher with great stuff but bad command. A harder throwing Bedard. You get 5 - 6 innings and 100 pitches.
|72. By: Edman on 12-21-2012 09:10:59|
Agree with marinermutt, Seattle can go pay for pitching. They have money they haven't spent that should more than cover the cost of a decent pitcher, so to trade for one makes zero sense. Especially when the have four good starting pitching prospect on the horizon.
|73. By: d2ret on 12-21-2012 20:46:08|
Bondermann is in the fold for a spring invite. Keep it going with the local movement... Sizemore, Harden. Then Ellsbury next offseason.
|74. By: rotoenquire on 12-21-2012 22:12:33|
I would rather pay for a pitcher as well. What about De Aza from the White Sox? I read a couple reports he was available in a trade.
|75. By: rotoenquire on 12-22-2012 08:28:39|
Alo what about going after Daraiel Alvarez the 24 year old Cuban Defector? He has opne try out in January. The reports have him with.
Above Average Arm
Plays all 3 OF positions
The kid has improved him numbers every year and is having a decent run at winter ball.
Add to that according to the new CBA, Cuban defectors over the age of 23 that have three or more years of professional baseball experience are not subject to international free agent restrictions — most importantly: the limited signing bonus pool. Though baseball in Cuba is technically amateur baseball, Major League Baseball views the Cuban National Series as a professional league. In other words, Alvarez can be treated like any other free agent, and any money given to him does not count against the Mets' 2012-2013 international free agent singing bonus pool, which is already partially exhausted.
|76. By: rotoenquire on 12-22-2012 08:29:45|
the last part was a quote from an article...
|77. By: Ianyo on 12-22-2012 08:37:11|
Now there are rumors that Seattle is strongly interested in Raul Ibañez. What? Why?
Unless its like a Bay deal, I don't get it. Even then, I don't get it. Either they've completely given up on Smoak or they plan on sticking the worst LFer I've ever seen back out there.
Why not Mike Carp?
|78. By: ripperlv on 12-22-2012 09:05:25|
Sizemore seems like more trouble than he is worth.
Free-agent outfielder Grady Sizemore underwent microfacture right knee surgery in September, Anthony Castrovince of MLB.com reported.
Castrovince says several clubs have inquired about Sizemore's availability, but the prognosis on his knee suggests he won't be able to suit up until midseason at the earliest. The microfracture surgery is Sizemore's second, with the first coming on his left knee in June 2010.
|79. By: marinermutt on 12-22-2012 09:11:51|
I think the interest in Ibanez and the signing of Bay relates to veteren leadership which I think has been lacking from the team the past couple of years. Felix is probably the biggest leader on the team but he is a pitcher and I think you want an everyday player in that role also.
I can see them sharing LF in 2013.
|80. By: Ianyo on 12-22-2012 09:18:58|
I think if they were going to platoon in the OF, I'd hope it'd be a Wells/LH platoon. David DeJesus and Wells >>>>>>> Ibañez and Bay.
|81. By: ripperlv on 12-22-2012 09:45:57|
Rumors have M's chasing Ibanez. Really? Do we really need a 40 year old,.240/.308/.453, defenseless outfielder roaming left field? A platoon of the two sluggers that were. Past tense. That really creates a Wow factor. Can't we just go out and get a real outfielder. Obviously not!
|82. By: rotoenquire on 12-22-2012 10:21:32|
The thought is with age righties and lefties can still hit certain pitching and the combo of Bay and Ibanez platooning in the OF or DH makes sense. Been saying this could be realistic sense Bay was signed.
C. Ross just signed with the D-Backs, J. Kubal could now be a target.
|83. By: maqman on 12-22-2012 11:14:34|
Liriano signed by Pirates 2/$14MM. Free agent arms are getting expensive. Can't imagine how much Kyle Lohse will be overpaid.
Cody Ross to D'backs 3/$26MM. Second tier OFers getting expensive too.
Of the two Cuban prospects available without a signing bonus cap shortstop Aledmys Diaz is reportedly the better prospect. He will turn 23 on January 8th and has some pop and a strong arm. He was the first player to join the highest level Cuban league as a teenager is some years.
Ibanez is reportedly negotiating with Cashman to return to the Yankees. He's built for their stadium.
Bay or Bonderman should not be counted on to fill any spot other than longshot.
Z has reportedly talked to the Dodgers about Capuano, maybe he should talk some more.
|84. By: titans12 on 12-22-2012 11:55:12|
lets go get Upton now.We gotta be able to put together a package for him.
|85. By: MarinerCoug on 12-22-2012 14:42:34|
The only way I go for Upton is if he can be had without giving up Walker or anything that even moderately takes away from the Big club... fat chance.
|86. By: rjfrik on 12-22-2012 17:43:08|
The M's should really be considering signing the Cuban boys. We've seen first hand what the top players in Cuba can do here. A lot of great MLB guys are Cuban. I think it's time the M's explored that route again.
|87. By: Mackie on 12-22-2012 18:23:01|
Good grief... the Mariners signed Raul Ibanez to a one-year deal worth a reported $2.75M. Did we really need another DH? Is this move a precursor to some other move coming soon to clear up some of the 1B/DH logjam?
|88. By: Paul Martin on 12-22-2012 19:40:18|
Who needs Hamilton or Swisher or Bourn when we can get Bay and good old Raul Ibanez! Guess the roster is all set now!
|89. By: Paul Martin on 12-22-2012 19:47:08|
Since we are signing former Mariners or guys with local ties, AND we need starting pitching...does this Mean Freddy Garcia is or next big move???
|90. By: rotoenquire on 12-22-2012 21:59:31|
This is not as bad as some of you think. Bay with bat vs RHP and Ibanez vs LHP. Ibanez last year agaist starting LHP batted .325. The thought is a LHB will do better even at an older age against a LHP and a RHB will do the same against a RHP. I like those moves, they will split time eitehr at DH or on the OF. The M's are not done these are leadership slash batting order improvement.
I think adding the Cuban OF Alvarez would be huge. The M's don't need the SS Cuban kid unless they trade Franklin. I think D. Young is still an option as well. I also would love to see the M's go after De Aza from the White Sox. And eat some salary and trade Guity.
De Aza CF
|91. By: Mackie on 12-23-2012 00:18:34|
It can be made to work as is, although it would be a huge juggling act. Seems they would have to use some almost-platoons and some job-sharing, but they could maybe maximize their offense by playing to the strengths of individuals:
LF - .5 Ibanez, .5 Bay - Ibanez mostly against RHP and Bay mostly against LHP (going by their career splits for OPS)
DH - .33 Ibanez, .33 Morales, .33 Montero - use Ibanez and Morales against RHP, Montero mostly against LHP
1B - .33 Morales, .67 Smoak - Smoak probably gets more ABs because he can play in the field more
C - .33 Montero, .67 Jaso - Montero against LHP, Jaso in lineup against RHP
Playing time - Ibanez .83, Montero .67, Jaso .67, Smoak .67, Morales .67, Bay .5
The main problem I see with these six guys sharing four positions in the above scenario is that Morales wouldn't be getting enough ABs. If both Morales and Smoak are hitting well? A nice problem to have. If just Morales is hitting well? Smoak would seem to be in the way.
If they use the two-headed old-guy mix in LF, that could mean Saunders in CF, and maybe Gutierrez in RF (which I don't think is optimal). So I can see their remaining big moves this way:
1. Replace Vargas in the rotation, probably with a FA signing, maybe someone like Joe Saunders.
2. Trade for a right fielder with some power... and maybe Smoak and Gutierrez are included in that trade, along with prospects?
3. Something out of the blue, as Zduriencik gives us very little lead-up or warning for any of his moves!
|92. By: Mackie on 12-23-2012 00:21:17|
And in all that, I didn't mention how the defense would suffer in LF and behind the plate... but if it's better offense they are looking for, I think the above arrangement might get the job done with some tweaking along the way, and if players mature/develop as expected, if some continue to produce at current levels, and if some of them rebound.
|93. By: ripperlv on 12-23-2012 00:24:19|
rotoenquire, I don't buy your argument.
First of all, Ibanez is a LHB and he hit .197 vs. LHP and .248 against RHP. Why would Ibanez play against LHP. And why would Bay play against RHP? BTW Bay hit .172 vs. LHP and .158 vs. RHP. I don't see any improvement over Wells.
As far as leadership, isn't that what Griffey Jr. was supposed to do? How did that work out?
So now we have Morales, Ibanez, Montero, and Jaso at DH? Ibanez and Bay in LF? Morales and Smoak at 1B? Gutt in CF (if he can stay healthy). Saunders in RF.
Somehow, I'm not very impressed. Typical Mariner low cost cosmetic window dressing. Oh, but we did get Bonderman, now things will change. Geez, where can he fit with hurlers like Noesi and Beavan in front of him. Forgive me if I'm not impressed by the moves the Mariners have made. Looks like another sub-80 win season.
|94. By: StandinPat on 12-23-2012 12:42:53|
"Looks like another sub-80 win season"
You do realize they won 75 with a ton of first and second year players last year right?
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