| By Jason A. Churchill |  | By 01-09-2013 |
Yes, this is exactly what you think it is. A place for trade proposals to be made.
There are five rules to make a proposal and avoid having it deleted. These rules are necessary, I'm sure you can decipher why.
1. One proposal per person
Multiple proposals will be deleted, amended proposals will also be deleted, but in conversation style you can certainly respond to the reactions of others.
2. Make it realistic
Multiple team trades are ridiculously rare and difficult, but if you do the work -- cover all the angles, explain IN DETAIL why EACH team might consider such a deal -- it will be allowed. Otherwise, it will be deleted, no questions asked.
No bulk trades. What I mean by this is BE REALISTIC. Miami isn't trading Stanton to Seattle for eight B and C prospects. He's a star, propose a trade of potential stars for him.
3. No specific cash amounts
If you feel some cash may be necessary, just say that. Throwing out an exact amount is such a wild guess that it's not worth it and simply adds another element that others can disagree with. Just remain general.
4. Remember MLB's rules
2012 draft picks are not eligible right now, even as players to be named later. No '12 draftees or your proposal will be deleted.
5. No rosterbation
Within your proposal, discuss parts of the lineup or the potential impact of the player or players involved, but do NOT list a projected lineup or rotation. The entire proposal will be deleted if you do.
The point of this is entertainment and conversation, but listing lineups just mucks things up. I will be monitoring this regularly to delete proposals so we can keep the thread flush with legitimate discussion-starting trade ideas.
Oh, and it doesn't have to Mariners related.
make-your-trade-poroposals
Comments
The following 114 comment(s) for this article are shown below:
| 1. By: ripperlv on 01-09-2013 05:06:41 Proposal: Justin Upton for James Paxson, Carter Capps, Charlie Furbush. Diamondbacks: Kevin Towers finally realizes that he can only get so much for Upton and his 3/85. A young LHP goes well with the growth plan, and 2 good relievers, RHP and LHP gives Diamondbacks dominant bullpen. Towers loves a good bullpen. Has lots of years before FA. Mariners: Finally get a corner OF after seaching the far ends of the earth. Give up a young pitching prospect, their strength, and a couple of good bullpen pieces. JZ knows he can grow a bullpen, and takes a bit of a chance in order to get long sought after corner OF with 5 tools. Of course Upton must waive no-trade w/M's. Hopefully accepts 2 year extentsion and accepts trade. |
| 2. By: thirdbase22 on 01-09-2013 05:11:42 There were rumors of the Orioles interest in Smoak so: Smoak and Capps for Markakis |
| 3. By: leos_world on 01-09-2013 05:43:20 Stanton and Nolasco for Walker, Paxton, Ackley/Franklin, Saunders, Pryor, Victor Sanchez, and Noesi Marlins: IF, they are willing to give up Stanton, this gives them a pair of top pitching prospects, a pair of possible above average bats, a potential closer, a lower lever high ceiling starter, and some roster depth. Helps their rebuilding process. Seattle: Gets an Elite Power Bat that we have been looking for with years of control. Low cost which could allow possibly another signing/trade (where we take on a big Salary), and a SP who we could rely on to replace Vargas. |
| 4. By: shemberry on 01-09-2013 06:26:09 Wilhelmsen and Ryan to the Detroit Tigers for Rick Porcello and Avisail Garcia. Why the Tigers do it: They add a proven closer to bridge the gap to Rondon without having to give up their draft pick or slot money to sign Soriano. They improve their infield defense dramatically, providing a SS with great range to make up for Cabrera's lack of it. Why the M's do it: Because they are unable to land an impact veteran bat, the M's choose to go with a young projectable corner OF. He may need another year at AAA, but would immediately become the best OF prospect in the system. They also add Porcello who may benefit from the change of scenery and would allow the team to keep their top pitching prospects in the minor leagues. Fans would be disappointed in this deal I am sure, but Jack has preached patience. This trade may also help set them up for a future Stanton trade as it provides them with a young OF they could keep or include in a deal in the future, when MIA may be open to dealing Stanton, and another young pitcher that may allow them to deal from the young pitching at the minor league level when/if the time comes. |
| 5. By: Rudolf on 01-09-2013 06:29:30 Thanks, JAC. And thanks to whomever suggested this in a previous thread. #1: I think M's fans would be thrilled with that, which makes me question it. Then again, Indians' fans have to be thrilled with Bauer. It might be more believable if Furbush were swapped for a position prospect like Franklin, Romero, etc. #2: Interesting... Do the O's need another bullpen piece? #3: The front three look like the beginning of a probable package, (as far as what the M's could do). I like how you held Hultzen back. I think the M's see him as a big part of the solution in Seattle long term. He's our Mark Buehrle. The back four of your package could certainly work. Saunders would be hard to give up, considering we are short players in the outfield. Sanchez is moveable, but he also heads the next wave of pitching. Nice work, guys! I'll contribute something other than critiques when I get a chance. |
| 6. By: Galway on 01-09-2013 06:43:00 Stanton, Nolasco for Seager, Walker, Paxton, Franklin, Saunders, Pryor M's get a generational talent and a bat that no one in their system has the potential to become. Mauer and Hultzen still provide a pitching pipeline and long term feeds for third are still in the system in Romero or Miller. I would sub out Montero who has a higher ceiling than Seager (and can be replaced by Zunino)but C just isn't nearly as needed by Miami so to do that would require a third team such as Tampa and again that makes really difficult even more complicated. This would leave a huge hole for the M's short term at third which could be filled via scrap heap, Triunfal, or another trade possible with Smoak. It's a shorter hole and long term replacements avail in the system. No corner OF in the sytem with near the potential so a trade off. Marlins get an immediate hole filled at third,the removal of a big salary of a player who has requested a trade and implied he may not report in the spring otherwise, some upside at 2B in Franklin who would be a pairing with Hechavarria at SS, and two TOR potential pitchers near MLB ready including a rarified true ace possibility. Saunders is young cheap MLB talent for now with some upside while Marisnick develops a bit more. And if the Marlins develop someone will actually have to close games. |
| 7. By: jgstecker on 01-09-2013 06:46:46 Franklin Gutierrez to the Dodgers for Chris Capuano in a straight salary swap. This happens right after the M's sign Michael Bourn. Dodgers get a needed 4th OF in exchange for their #7 SP. With the amount of time Crawford and Kemp missed last year, Gutierrez would be a good fit in LA. M's get a temporary #3. The nice thing about this scenario is that there's still budget room (assuming a $90 million payroll) for Trade Proposal #1 above, which I think is reasonable if Nick Franklin is substituted for one of the relievers. |
| 8. By: Galway on 01-09-2013 06:57:59 Rudolf I agree Saunders hurts but you simply can not get big reward without some pain. He had a strong year so trade high plus cheap seems to have greater value than Guti. Guti, Stanton and assorted fill with Wells Ibanez et al... makes a decent OF. If no confidence in Guti Bourn is avail for center. I personally think Guti is a the surprise of this teamin 2013. He looks much more focussed and is looked solid this winter. Yes injury bug has been huge for him so yes a risk, one I'd accept but I get if others don't. |
| 9. By: Galway on 01-09-2013 07:01:19 #7 I like it in theory not sure of value of Guti right now plus sooner or later the Dodgers have to be sensitive to the dollars spent and Capuano is not a big ticket item for them but I like the idea. |
| 10. By: dewey on 01-09-2013 07:57:18 Kubel for Furbush and a prospect. |
| 11. By: Paul Martin on 01-09-2013 08:20:43 @1 Love the idea, but have my doubts Arizona would go for it. @2 I would prefer to give Smoak one last year, especially since he still has minor league options left. I have seen too many young hitters fail here, only to become solid players elsewhere. @3 and @6 I love Stanton and would like nothing more than to see him in a M's uniform. I just don't think Miami will trade him this year. I think it is more likely to happen next year or at the earliest at the trade deadline. I am sure Jack has his finger on the pulse here and will do everything humanly possible to make it happen if or when he does become available. It reminds me of when Pete Carroll traded for Marshon Lynch. I heard he called the Bills 6 times before they finally agreed to trade him. Suckers!!! Who has the Beast now? @4. You are giving up too much for Porcello. Also, the guy is right handed, and with Vargas gone, all of our projected starters are right handed. Just not a good fit... @7. I like Chris Capuano a lot. He was my trade target too! I think Seattle has a real good chance of getting him. LA has 7 starters, none of which have minor league options. They have to trade at least one. I think there will be competition for him though, which will drive up his price. I don't want to trade Gutierrez though (same logic as was used for not trading Smoak above). I think what LA needs is a back up catcher. I am sure they will ask for Jaso in any trade. I would rather give them prospects instead. After their big trades the past two years, maybe they need to strengthen their farm system. Which brings me to my trade proposal: Chris Capuano for Brandon Mauer and Carter Capps. Thoughts?? |
| 12. By: Galway on 01-09-2013 08:31:04 Paul, I agree baseball wise but the dysfunction in Miami is really under rated. So I agree not likely but do feel a trade of Stanton to anyone is more likely than no way. I like the young talent so if a trade go for high ceiling even if not likely. I like the Capuano for Mauer Capps a lot. |
| 13. By: masonb on 01-09-2013 08:56:52 No offense, but trading Maurer and Capps for Capuano would justify firing Z immidiately. Maurer has mid rotation and possibly #2 starter upside and Capps has closer upside. Capuano is an injury-prone #4 starter. Also LA has little leverage. I'd offer them a mid level prospect or two and see if they take that. Maurer let alone Capps is absolutely bat shit crazy |
| 14. By: Gibbo on 01-09-2013 09:08:01 Brendan Ryan and Mike Carp for Chris Capuano and Dee Gordon. For the Dodgers they need a defensive SS because HanRam will eventually move over to 3rd so in Ryan the get one of the best. They need someone that can play 1st and corner OF which Carp does (just). We get Capuano for a year a chance for Gordon to see if he can bounce back at SS, if not you bring up Franklin an convert Gordon to CF. They may actually prefer Wells as he is a rightie OF that can cover multiple OF spots or a leftie reliever like Luetge or Furbush, so out of the deal comes Carp and in goes one of the others. Like the Porcello ideas and Markakis too |
| 15. By: diderot on 01-09-2013 09:17:01 @1 I would love to see this happen...but I don't think there's a way it could. Even though fans booed Upton, Gibson benched him and the front office has given highly mixed signals, Towers ego means he has to get 'names' in a trade for him. thus... Upton for Franklin and Hultzen. I'm guessing this will be seen as an overpay by M's fans. But I believe it's what will need to happen to land one of the top dozen outfielders in baseball. Towers can say, "see how I fleeced them for two of the game's top prospects?!" And at the same time, he gets a potential replacement for Bauer, and in Franklin not only a fallback for Gregorius, but more likely, the logical eventual replacement for Hill at second. Middlie infield is not a position of strength in their organization. For us, Ryan gives us another two years or so until Miller is ready at short, our rotation includes Paxton, Iwakuma, Ramirez and Maurer/Jack's replacement part in addition to Felix. My belief is Upton returns to Adam Jones-plus form once he's away from an organization that has jacked him around for over two years...and hits #3 in the lineup for the next 5-8 seasons. |
| 16. By: WSChamps2014 on 01-09-2013 09:29:29 #1 - I would substitute Luetge for Furbush. All of our lefties in the bullpen are basically fastball/slider situationalists, however Perez comes with better success against righties. I wouldn't trust Luetge, LaFromboise, or Moran to be a setup guy if Perez walks after this season. #1 I would substitute Wilhelmsen for Capps, because Wilhelmsen has more trade value and is 29 with 5 years of control, while Capps is 22 with 6 years of control. For a team trying to compete for a championship and not just trying to get into the playoffs, like the D-Backs, they'd rather take the more polished reliever with closer experience, over the projectability of a young prospect. I don't know if three players gets it done, but if we could get them to take Luetge instead of Furbush, I'd kick in a B-type prospect to close the deal. |
| 17. By: Rudolf on 01-09-2013 09:30:03 @ 11 and 12: you opinion immediately lost significant credibility with the Maurer + Capps for Capuano proposal. It sounds as if you have no idea what you are talking about. Mock trades often favor the offering club, and when they don't it is usually an overpay for a big time player. But two really nice prospects for an NL West #4 starter? I don't see how you can recover from that. Why don't we just sign Saunders/Marcum (or throw spaghetti at the wall), and keep the kids? Or use them to acquire a better player? |
| 18. By: Rudolf on 01-09-2013 09:30:13 I've decided to go outside the box a little: Texas gives up Olt, Holland. Seattle gives up Jaso, Paxton, Romero. Try to ignore the understood AL West limitations. Texas does the deal because they dont need Olt d/t Beltre blocking him, and Holland, while a nice, young starting pitcher with a decent contract, pitches like crap in Arlington, (unlike other Texas SP who have nice splits). Both players have been linked to trade rumors. Texas has a strong rotation and can absorb the loss of Holland. Texas needs a real catcher. Jaso hits very well and can play half his starts at catcher. Their DH, Berkman, is fragile/old, and Jaso could DH when he doesn't catch. Paxton has a higher upside than any of their pitching prospects and has the dominant stuff to potentially survive in Arlington. Lastly, Cruz is a FA next year and their current outfield is mediocre. Romero gives them positional flexibility and proximity to the major leagues to fill potential holes in their roster, whether in the OF, 1B (if Moreland isn't cutting it), or the infield. Texas has a nice farm, but they lack high upside SP and hitters close to the majors. Seattle does it because Holland fills the #3 SP role. His road numbers are really nice. Olt gives them the piece they need to get a bigger trade accomplished, whether it includes him or Seager. Olt could also shift Seager to 2B, and Ackley elsewhere on the field or to another town. We can absorb the loss of Paxton, Jaso, and Romero without screwing up the future. Catcher might be a little awkward in 2013 for the M's without Jaso, but that wouldn't last long. I don't expect something like this to get done. Just a weird idea. It is hard to know how Texas views Jaso. |
| 19. By: Edman on 01-09-2013 09:43:47 Galway, your comments about Miami being dysfunctional may or may not be true, but they aren't stupid. They know exactly what they have in Stanton. There is no need to trade him now, and they'll hold that chip as long as they can, unless there is a serious overpay. The question is what would Miami want more, a lot of prospects, or some good major league ready talent. Seattle will be bidding against nearly every Major League team. And, I'm not so sure that Seattle has the kind of talent that Miami is looking for. Wishing that they're so dysfunctional that they'd deal Stanton before they have to, isn't logical. |
| 20. By: MarinerCoug on 01-09-2013 10:11:06 I was going to go simple, but what the hell, let's have some fun: Mariners trade Walker, Paxton, Montero, Ryan, Miller, Franklin and and Jack Marder for Tulo and Cargo Why the Rockies do it: The team has already burned through useful pieces like Ubaldo and the like, so why not just add pissing off their fans to the list? Sarcasm aside, this move takes their system from being middle of the pack to top 5ish, and also gives them some young talent to work with now. Montero can catch some and learn to play 1B this year while Helton gets ready to ride off into the sunset, giving them a power stick at 1B for the forseeable future. With Franklin and Miller, they have the 2B/SS combo for the better part of a decade, with Ryan giving both time to develop in AA/AAA this year. And in Walker and Paxton, it gives the Rocks two power arms to add to an already decent set currently in the high minors. Why the Ms do it: They get two premier players to plug into the middle of the lineup... talents that would likely not otherwise come to Seattle. Plus, the Ms still probably have a top 15 system, even after this trade. |
| 21. By: Jerry on 01-09-2013 10:16:21 I call BS on #20. The Rockies would be absolutely gutting their team, trading players they went out of their way to lock up long term. Doesn't make that much sense for the M's, either, as they would be absolutely gutting their farm system. Doesn't pass the litmus test. A lot of the other proposals - #1, #2, #15, #16 - are a bit thin for the other clubs. |
| 22. By: Paul Martin on 01-09-2013 10:16:36 @19 what is your trade proposal? |
| 23. By: Galway on 01-09-2013 10:41:36 Ed actually I know they are dysfuntional from working with members of that org when I lived in Miami for a decade. No I have zero knowledge on current thinking. No I do not think he will be traded as I said but logic and Miami don't hand in hand. As I said it UNLIKELY but due to reward if trying only one trade what I would attempt. I do feel odds are greater than no way possible. Thats a crazy stance so be it. Mauer I just don't value him as high and the skill set offered by both Capps and Mauer are still captured via other prospects in the system. No one in the sytem is a lefty innings eater at the MLB level plus at $3mill reasonable. price. He is three years removed from injury and has thrown a 190ip each year since. Too much to pay so be it. |
| 24. By: masonb on 01-09-2013 10:54:45 Here's my idea KC gets: James Paxton, Casper Wells, Vinnie Catricala, John Hicks SEA gets: Lorenzo Cain, Jason Adam, Christian Colon Why Seattle does it: They trade from a some of their minor league starting depth to get Cain-a guy who can hit and has leadoff potential. They also pick up some minor league depth in Adam-a guy who could turn out to be another mid-rotation starter, and Colon who has never really lived up to his potential, but could be a nice bench guy. Why KC does it: They get a replacement in Wells who could equal if not surpass Cain's production this year, and Paxton who they have been rumored to be after and could get into that rotation perhaps out of spring training. They also pick up some depth in Catricala and Hicks. I know it's not the sexy deal, but one that could help down the road. I'm leary to give up too soon on Catricala, but the emergence of Romero and Miller makes him expendable. I also hate giving up on Wells, but he seems to be the odd man out under Wedge. Paxton and Hicks are replaceable with the depth in the system. Critique away |
| 25. By: Paul Martin on 01-09-2013 11:06:14 @24 How dare you try to trade John Hicks, former college catcher for Danny Hultzen at Virginia!!! |
| 26. By: Jerry on 01-09-2013 11:12:08 I like the idea of Wilhelmsen for Porcello (with additional minor players to get the deal done). But others have already said that. How about this three-way deal: DET gets Brendan Ryan, Tom Wilhelmsen, Lucas Leutge, and Mike Carp LAD gets Jhonny Peralta and Shawn Kelley SEA gets Rick Porcello, Aaron Harang, Dee Gordon, and Brennan Boesch Tigers Rationale: they need to a closer and improvement in their infield defense. Wilhelmsen gives them an excellent closer, and Ryan is among the best defensive SSs in baseball. They lose Peralta (who would be pushed out by Ryan anyhow), Porcello (who doesn't fit in their rotation now), and Boesch (who has worn out his welcome there). With a loaded lineup (Jackson, Cabrera, Fielder, Martinez, Hunter) they are uniquely well-situated to bring in a defense-only player. With Ryan and Infante in the middle of the infield, their offense would be a lot better. Carp/Boesch is a sort of lateral move, and gives them a cheaper LH bat. More a change of scenery addition. Leutge gives them another LH bullpen option. The Tigers get significant salary relief, with Porcello and Boesch are both looking at significant salaries in arbitration, and Peralta is owed $5.5 mil with a $6 mil option (0.5 buyout) in 2014. This move saves them about $10 mil. LAD Rationale: their only weak spot on the field is 3B, and Peralta gives them an upgrade there. They also could use some bullpen help, and Kelley is a useful piece. They only give up Dee Gordon and Aaron Harang, who don't fit on the club anymore with Hanley Ramirez playing there full time and 7+ starters on the team. Harang (due $7 mil next year with $8 mil option/2 mil buyout for 2014) is basically a salary dump. He probably wouldn't make that much in free agency). Overall, this move saves them a million or two, while giving them a considerable upgrade at 3B. SEA Rationale: The M's need help in their starting rotation, and Porcello and Harang are both solid innings eaters. Porcello is the key, as he is a huge breakout candidate moving from DET to SEA. Harang is a useful #4/5 guy who the M's could likely flip at the trade deadline when Paxton/Hultzen/Maurer are ready to come up. Gordon is basically a younger version of Ryan, sacrificing a bit of defense for speed and upside. He struggled a lot in LA the last two years, but as a former top prospect has some upside. The M's are basically trading Carp for Boesch. Carp doesn't really fit on the team anymore. Boesch at least has some upside, but he's likely to be released if he doesn't perform. The M's would be putting him into the LF/4th OF competition with Ibanez, Wells, and Bay. With Porcello and Boesch both arbitration eligible, and Harang due $7 mil plus a $2 mil buyout on a 2014 option, the M's would be taking on a lot of salary, but that isn't much of an issue since they can't get anyone to take their $$$ anyhow. The M's would be adding about $12 million at the end of the day. Not too shabby. |
| 27. By: candasharp on 01-09-2013 11:15:25 Wilhelmsen for Porcello. Trade from strength for both teams. If you can get the Tigers to take Pryor + mid-level prospect instead, that's great. |
| 28. By: Edman on 01-09-2013 11:22:01 Paul, I don't have a trade proposal, because I don't think Stanton will be made available any sooner than next off-season, at the soonest. |
| 29. By: Paul Martin on 01-09-2013 11:29:51 @28 I actually agree with you on Stanton's availability because no young superstar like Stanton had EVER been traded at this point in their career having already accomplished what Stanton has. The closest thing I could find was Miguel Cabrera getting traded to Detroit. The big difference was Cabrera was only under team control 2 more years, NOT 4 like Stanton. I believe Detroit had to eat Dontrelle Willis and his bloated contract as part of the deal. I was just curious in what trade you would like to see. It seems you only criticize other proposals and never come up with one of your own... As moderator of this website, I guess you don't have to... |
| 30. By: csiems on 01-09-2013 11:39:19 Seattle: Nick Franklin, James Paxton, Brandon Maurer, Patrick Kivlehan Padres: Chase Headley Why Seattle Does This: Headley is probably the best controlled third baseman in the majors right now that might be available. He's a plus bat with average defense at either third or left-field, and the Mariners have the ability to extend him long term. Why San Diego Does This: GM Byrnes loves Headley, but the team's budget probably won't allow him to pay market price. It seams to me that the Padres are pretty weak at middle infield (they have Logan Forsythe and Everth Cabrera at 2B/SS), and pitching (Clayton Richards is their #2). This trade fills the primary holes with ready or near-ready talent, and gives them a lottery ticket shot at a quality third baseman in 3-4 years. |
| 31. By: Edman on 01-09-2013 11:49:49 Paul, I seldom propose trades, because I find them worthless. I think Seattle could have a trade partner in the D-backs for Kubel, because apparently they wanted young pitching from Baltimore. I don't bother trying to get specific, because like everyone here, my best guess is likely not to match reality. I don't feel any need to prove myself smarter than Jack. I let him figure out the specifics. csiems, Patrick Kivlehan cannot be traded because he was drafted last year. |
| 32. By: WSChamps2014 on 01-09-2013 11:53:12 #2, I wouldn't do Smoak for Markakis straight up, just because the money involved would be ridiculous for the player you'd get back. Markakis has been worth 8.7 WAR over the last 4 seasons combined, and in 2009-2011 he was totally healthy (160-161 games each year). In Baltimore's offense-friendly bandbox he's probably no better than a maximum .800 OPS, 20 HR guy with already below average defense (arm strength not withstanding), and exiting his prime years (already 29 and declining steadily over the last few years). Normally 1 long D.L. stay doesn't mean anything, but considering his ability to stay on the field, it shouldn't be taken lightly, especially since 2012 was the first year he had real reason to play through the injuries. Including his buyout, he'll be paid a minimum of $32M over the next two years and as much as $47M over the next 3 seasons. At 2.5 WAR/160 games and declining, that contract is going to get ugly in a hurry, especially moving to Safeco since all his value is tied up in his bat. Probably most important, we don't need another lefty DH bat, especially one that comes with such a big price tag. He would be a salary dump if we took him and really is no better than the list of platoon bats and 4th OFs that litter the roster, like Thames for example, and just limits our flexibility financially. I wouldn't pay prospects on top of that. Sure he's still "young", but he has a lot of mileage, doesn't have far to fall before he's a negative WAR value, due to him being useless in the field, and only slightly above-average at the plate. Safeco might even exasperate his problems since he doesn't have Thames' power. I'd give him one of Kelley or Kinney and they'd have to eat $6-8M of his salary for me to even consider it. If totally healthy he's probably only worth 4 WAR maximum over the next 2 years($22M value), which makes him a negative $10M value, if you are bullish on him, he might be worth 5 WAR, which is $27.5M while being paid $32M, a negative of $4.5M. To take on a negative salary addition, especially when he's not a clear upgrade over what we have, seems ill-advised at best for the Mariners. Getting a middle reliever under cost control like Kinney or Kelley is really the best they could hope for in Baltimore. Even for the Orioles it doesn't make sense at this point in the offseason. It would be a <1% possibility, unless they want to move Jones to RF and sign Bourn for CF in Baltimore, since finding a capable replacement would be difficult now. |
| 33. By: csiems on 01-09-2013 11:58:29 @31 Aww crap. Missed that. |
| 34. By: WSChamps2014 on 01-09-2013 12:07:22 This is a good point to bring up payroll. While it's not our money as fans, and we don't care how good of a value the player is for the money as long as we get better as a team, it should be duly noted that not even the Dodgers are really printing money and their payroll comes with a ceiling. Each team has a different ceiling that it's GM must work within, justified or not. To pretend like a team can pay whatever price it wants for a guy, whether in free agency or in taking on big contracts is unreasonable. Even with guns to their heads, Armstrong, Howard, and the board members aren't going to raise payroll beyong a certain point, no matter how much you may have legitimate reasons for why the Mariners "could spend" $130M a year on payroll,they just won't. So Markakis and Ethier salaries need to be considered within the context of a $100-$110M payroll going forward, not a team spending $130M+, even if some day we become that. Do you want one of those guys making 14-17% of the team payroll? This year it could be as much as 20%. I think there's better ways to flush money than that. If we're going to do that, why don't we just offer the Marlins prospects +$30M cash divided over the next two years. We can still buckle the knees of the payroll, while getting a better player. Payroll considerations are real and should not be dismissed with comments like "it's not my money, I want them to spend more." If they only want to spend $100M, then I want them to be as affective as possible with their resources. |
| 35. By: MarinerCoug on 01-09-2013 12:15:35 @21 Jerry- I implied from the beginning that it was far-fetched. I don't think either team would be eager to jump at the deal either, but, I think that's pretty equal value on both sides. |
| 36. By: on 01-09-2013 12:22:52 Okay. Here are my opinions. Sorry if some seem to brash. Just speaking off the cuff. #1. Is actually a trade I can see happening come Feb. before teams are ready to report for camp. With Upton, the longer you wait on him the more the price comes down. He's like a 2013 model car. If you buy one now, when all the 2014 models hit the market you can get a steal and I believe that is what is going to happen with Upton. Either that or Arizona holds their breath and keeps the kid. One thing I believe we could do to make sure that trade happen is swap Capps with the Bartender or Franklin/Romero, their choice. I believe Zona would make that trade then. #2. No thanks. Giving up too soon on Smoak, who could end up just as valuable as Markakis, plus you are throwing in a future closer, who's a stud, with a ton of club control #3. It would never happen in a million years. Not nearly enough value for one of the top 3 players in the game. You guys have to realize that Stanton is one of the top 3 players in all of baseball because of his skill, control and value. Why would the Marlins take anything less then equal value for him? They won't. The M's don't have what it takes to land him. #4. Over pay for Porcello. The Tigers don't value him that much. Ryan is the best defensive SS in the game and is not worth Garcia straight up, so that means that part of Ryan's value will be directed toward obtaining Porcello, that makes it an overpay. As many people have pointed out, the Tigers need a CL, so do a straight swap. And frankly I think you get Porcello for a RP not named bartender, just someone that they could see as a CL and plug into the role. #6. Once again, no way. M's don't have enough to land Stanton. #7. Why trade Franky? Now we have two holes in our OF. And we aren't signing Bourn. The FO values the pick way more then most fans realize. Cap can be had from the Dodgers for a B level prospect, with maybe a C level thrown in. This isn't some great pitcher. He's a guy they don't need. Send them Cat the Bat and that would most likely get it done. #10. I could see that. Kubel for a reliever and a throw in. #11. No way you pay that much for Cap. As I stated before he can be had for a B level prospect. #14. This could happen. Carp for Cap is a fair, swap for both sides. And really we are gambling on Gordon and I could see LA doing that, #15. If it's just Franklin and Hutlzen I could see it. But I get the feeling that JZ has Walker and Hultzen in his no trade zone for some reason. I think Paxton would be the primary pitcher going in that trade. #18. No way. We can go get a pitcher to replace Vargas equal to Holland without sending off our starting catcher and 2 of our top 6 prospects. And I'm not sold on Olt. The guy strikes out a ton. Not sure how good he would be at Safeco and we have a 3b, a good young one at that. #20. NO WAY. So we basically become the Rockies and the Rockies grab all the amazing young talent the M's have and are set up for the future? I'll pass. Cargo is awful away from Coors. Just look at his numbers. And Tulo, although I love him, is not worth the booty you are sending their way. #24. No way. You are sending the Royals a ton for what essentially amounts to Cain, who Michael Saunders is better then. Why? Not a good trade. #26. Seems like you are complicating things with that. Boesch isn't needed at all. And Porcello and Gordon could be had straight up by trades with each team, for a lessor package I would think. #27. Exactly. I think you could do it for less then the bartender. |
| 37. By: rjfrik on 01-09-2013 12:25:56 More opinions. #30. Can't trade Patrick. And the other three is too much for Headley. That package is a great package for Upton, let alone Headley. |
| 38. By: WSChamps2014 on 01-09-2013 13:08:42 My trade would be to setup a Stanton trade sometime this year or next offseason, while eliminating the Rangers from the bidding. As I think they might be one of two teams that could stand in our way when Stanton comes available. We would be helping the Rangers in the immediate, while setting up our future with lon term assets at SP and CF. Texas gets: Jesus Montero, Michael Saunders, and Stephen Pryor Seattle gets: Derek Holland, Mike Olt, Leonys Martin, and Geovany Soto Olt is well liked by the Marlins and together with our other prospects would make a formidable offer for Stanton at a later date. In the short-term, he could be a super-sub that starts in AAA and gets promoted in May or June. He would then backup 3B when Seager gets a day off or is playing 2B. He'd also give a shortr-term fix to 1B if Smoak needs to get sent back down to AAA. He could probably even play a little LF and take the DH at bats that were earmarked for Montero. Derek Holland slots into #2 or #3 in the rotation in front of or behind Iwakuma, while he's under control for a number of years, the salary will start to go up, and so far he's yet to tap into his potential. Martin becomes the starting CF and leadoff hitter, pushing Ackley to 2nd in the lineup. Soto becomes the catcher on days a lefty is starting, until Zunino is ready to take over, then he could be the 3rd catcher or trade bait for a contender. Why would the Rangers do it? They have no long-term answer at catcher: Pierzynski and Soto both are older and under contract for 1 year. he rangers have no near-ready prospects, so they would have to make a trade for a catcher and regardless of all the sh*t being talked about Montero as a catcher, he did call a no-hitter as a rookie, which is not nothing, and his defense was far from Rob Jhonson'esque, even if it wasn't anything to write home about. If Texas can play Napoli at catcher and 1B, then Montero should intrigue them as a pre-arb player with top 10 prospect pedigree. Playing in Arlington half the games each season should help his statistics dramatically as well. Saunders was better defensively in CF during 2012 and could be a starting CF for the Rangers going forward with + offense. He is similiar to a LH McCutchen (pre-2012 with .850 OPS), while they are ready to compete now, and potentially a corner outfielder in the future, if they choose to pursue Ellsbury or another free agent CF. |
| 39. By: Rudolf on 01-09-2013 13:33:00 @36, in defense of my proposal (#18): Holland has a great contract, strong stuff, youth, upside, and pitches very well outside of Arlington. You are either selling him short, treating the inclusion of Olt as an afterthought, or both. You may not be sold on Olt (and I'm not entirely sold either), but many talent scouts think he's a stud 3B with 25+ home run power. He doesn't hit for average, but he can take a walk. He is currently the Ranger's #2 prospect, ranked somewhere in the top 25-35 prospects overall. Paxton is ranked in the 50-60 range. Romero is unranked, but probably should be. Jaso may be the starting catcher, but not for long. And he's a part-timer. He's not someone to build around-- what the M's need-- he's a complimentary piece-- what the Ranger's need. Our catcher, #5 and #8 prospects for the Ranger's #2 prospect and #4 starter (who would be our #2/3). Maybe you don't like it, but it's hardly an awful proposal from the M's standpoint. |
| 40. By: MarinerCoug on 01-09-2013 13:41:39 @noname36 "So we basically become the Rockies" Really? So... who is the Rockies Felix? Who makes up their great bullpen? Who are their Ackley, Seager and Saunders? Who are their Zunino and Hultzen that are by all accounts near MLB ready? Again, the trade is far-fetched, and unrealistic from both sides. That being said, let's not act like the Ms are getting chopped live in return and have absolutely nothing on the ML roster and in the system behind those being given up. |
| 41. By: MarinerCoug on 01-09-2013 13:45:29 #1- The DBacks are going to need more of a sure-thing in return for a player of Upton's caliber, and both something of offensive and pitching upside in that regard. I think you'd have to replace Paxton with Hultzen, and Furbush with Franklin to get the deal for Upton done. |
| 42. By: Gibbo on 01-09-2013 14:15:56 On the DBacks and Upton, they have talked about trading him and keeping him and trading him, he cant be that happy and as long as Arizona wait the return will get less and less, at some stage they either need to make a deal or stop waisting everyones time. On the trade front what about the M's trading Carter Capps to Washington for Morse and then sending Morse and Kelley to Detroit for Porcello? |
| 43. By: DUWORKSON on 01-09-2013 14:15:59 Two team trade: Mariners Recieve:Oscar Taveras Cardinals Recieve:Tom Wilhelmsen and Mike Carp M's: The biggest glaring hole for the organization is young big league ready outfielders that the oganization can insert within 2014 i.e. Wil Meyers. Oscar Taveras fits the bill for the oganization a young OF with major pop who has the potintial to be a future allstar. Lets be realistic the M's are not going to contend next year and having an elite closer doesn't make too much sense. Cardinals: This team is built to contend now. However; thier starting pitching is suspect with Carperter's and Garcia's health. The most logical senese is to add a starting pitcher. However, I dont think the ogranization wants to spend the money. A cheaper alternative is to add pitching depth at the backend of the bullpen to lesson the starting pitchers workload until they are 100%. By acquiring Tom Wilhelmsen the Cardinals gets an elite closer. Who has the potentail to be the best closer in MLB. Adding Mike Carp in the trade gives the Cardinals some OF insurance as well. |
| 44. By: rjfrik on 01-09-2013 14:29:32 More opinions. #38. I would advise against making a trade as a precursor to another trade in a year. How would you know that the M's could land Stanton then? Or if Stanton will even be available? You don't. Soto is a hack and done with baseball, IMO. And the other three pieces are okay I guess. I don't see the shine for Holland. He's a player that can be had in FA and we have the money to sign a player identical to him in FA, so why throw away valuable young pieces for him. We don't need Olt, we have Seager, who is better. And Montero is going to be a real good hitter for a real long time. He was fantastic as a rookie last year. In a couple of years, he will be a big MOTO bat for us, BIG! #43 As much as I would love to have Taveras. That package would never get it done. Tavaras is a top 5 prospect. The bartender and scrap heap Carp won't get it done, not close. |
| 45. By: DUWORKSON on 01-09-2013 14:36:04 @rjfrik, I want Taveras bad! What type of a package would it take? |
| 46. By: WSChamps2014 on 01-09-2013 14:53:28 44, If Jack is committed to getting Stanton, the Mīs prospects + Olt is enough to get the deal done regardless of what Miami wants... Realize that Miami likes Olt a lot, so it wouldn't be hard to finish off the deal with other pieces like Walker, Franklin, and Paxton +. Sometimes who is more important than quantity. Even if you don't like Olt yourself. Check Holland's stuff, his contract, and realize nobody wants to be here. How much more does he cost than say Capuano? It's a great deal, I think. Keeping our #12 plus what we get is worth more than Bourn and keeping what we have, especially factoring ages, money, and timing of our rebuild... Even for the price without a Stanton deal it makes sense. |
| 47. By: MarinerCoug on 01-09-2013 15:14:17 @45- He isn't for sale for prospects... About the only players he would be traded for are Stanton and maybe Tulo... He is our Walker and eventually Zunino. |
| 48. By: on 01-09-2013 15:25:39 I doubt this could happen, but I see positives for all teams. Cleveland gets: Mike Carp, Brandon Maurer, and Joaquin Arias Seattle gets: Lonnie Chisenhall San Francisco gets: Carson Smith, Nick Hagadone Seattle gets a young 3B with skills freeing up Seager to play other positions and improves IF depth. Cleveland gets a LH 1B/DH in Carp to play with Reynolds. They have Mike Aviles to play 3B and get Arias to split time there. They get a projectable SP who would be a Top 3 prospect in their system behind Bauer and Lindor. San Francisco gets relief prospects and still have Gillespie to back up Sandoval at 3B. |
| 49. By: rjfrik on 01-09-2013 15:49:10 @Duworkson, I want Taveras bad as well, but as MarinerCoug said, St. Louis won't ship him off for prospects. If you look at Cardinals lineup for the future they are about (could) lose their top two pitchers (Wainwright and Carpenter) in the next couple of years. Taveras is only in AA, so I believe he has another year down on the farm at least. The M's only hope, IMO, is that Walker or Hultzen breaks into the bigs next year and performs like Pineda did and gains a ton of value. Then you have a young, SP stud that has proven himself at the MLB level. That is the type of player that will nab Taveras, the same way it nabbed Montero. So, unfortunately, I feel you would have to wait to get a bat like him for our OF. Champs, It's just very hard to project a trade for someone a year out. If we went and grabbed Olt, who really doesn't fit and is blocked by Seager (who is better), only to have him stashed for a future trade with Miami and then Miami next year realized that they have a young club that they could see contending and they are not trading Stanton at all, the M's would be screwed. That just doesn't work for me. But hey you never know. #48 I could see that trade. But then the question is why? We have Seager who is a good 3B. He was a monster away from Safeco and with the fences moved in he's going to get a lot better at home. And Seager isn't being moved to 2B or the OF. He's our 3B. I guess Chisenhall would an IF depth guy, but do you throw away Maurer for an IF depth guy? I probably don't. |
| 50. By: WSChamps2014 on 01-09-2013 16:06:37 49, let me give you two other options for why the trade works... Remember when Gutierrez played RF for the Indians or Crawford was healthy playing LF for the Rays? That's the potential of Martin in a corner, putting up 3 WAR of defensive value in a corner with his plus arm and range. So in the following three scenarios Stanton is not available, we'll pretend nobody else has trade interest in Olt and Dave Cameron is wrong when he says Olt would be a perfect fit for our roster because he can play corner infield and corner outfield. 1) Ackley sucks again at the plate and we have to send him to AAA to fix himself... Seager goes to 2B, Olt takes over at 3B, and we don't have to rush any of the guys in Tacoma. 2) Smoak sucks again at the plate and we have to send him to AAA to fix himself... Olt to 1B or Olt to 3B, Seager to 2B, and Ackley to 1B, depending on your preference. 3) Ackley and Smoak come out like gangbusters, but our OF offense sucks still (I know, improbable, right?), so we play Olt at 3B, Seager goes to 2B, Ackley takes over LF or if the problem is RF, we put Ackley in CF and move Martin to RF. Either way, the roster flexibility is undeniable and I could rattle off 10 teams that would jump at a chance to get Olt. And for what it's worth, who says Miami waits if they get the 3B they want in Olt, plus Franklin, plus Walker, plus Paxton, then you add Carp, Gutierrez, and Beavan. Maybe they say no, but maybe Jack knows that they just need a 3B like Olt to seal the deal and that's why he makes the trade. We all are short about 90% of the information we know to nail down the trade exactly, but I would imagine that Stanton's value will never be higher than now, and the Mariners holding the best position to land Stanton will expire after the deadline on July 31st passes. A lot could change to put the Twins, Padres, Cubs, and Red Sox in the hunt for Stanton, and I think next year this time, the Red Sox will let Ellsbury walk and go after Stanton, so if we want him, it would be sooner than later, that we would get him. As in, no later than the trade deadline. |
| 51. By: Panhead55 on 01-09-2013 16:12:07 I agree that Taveras is a great target, but as noted, not likely to be available. The Cards OF is currently manned by two geriatric OFers in Holliday and Beltran. Tavaeras slots in perfectly with those aged OFers. In addition our strengths match the Cardinals strengths and that is pitching. They have a great bullpen and have young SPs in Shelby Miller and Trevor Rosenthal in addition Tyrell Jenkins who is a bit further away. Where the Cards are weak is at MI, but I don't think that any combination of Ackley, Seagar, Franklin, or Miller could pry Taveras loose. I also don't think they would be interested in reacquiring Ryan as there is some bad blood there. The only way we get Taveras is if the Cards are in the thick of the race and lose one of their top pitchers. Then if Felix hasn't agreed to an extension, we might be able to trade Felix for Taveras plus. That is the only scenario that I could see us getting Taveras, and most here wouldn't want to do that. |
| 52. By: Adam T on 01-09-2013 16:13:45 Stanton for Ackley, Walker, Sanchez, Franklin, and Romero. |
| 53. By: MarinerCoug on 01-09-2013 16:22:42 @52- I love the idea of getting Stanton, but who do you expect to play 2B/3B after you make this trade? Andino can fill in for a year, I guess, but unless you are damned-confident you can land Cano or a 3B (with the thought of sliding Seager over to 2B) next offseason, you've just created another hole on your roster that needs to be filled. |
| 54. By: liumike1996 on 01-09-2013 16:35:30 Cardinals get: Justin Smoak, Nick Franklin and stephen pryor. Mariners get: Matt Adams and Trevor Rosensal Adams is blocked by allen craig at first so the cards are willing to trade him. he would be a good fit a first after 2013 if morales leaves,franklin is overrated so id trade him sooner rather than later, rosensal is a flamethrower and underrated a little, he could be used as a late inning reliever or as a full time starter depends on our starting rotation. Pryor would give the cards another power arm in the pen, smoak can develope in AAA if he fails then the cards dont lose much and can still trade him |
| 55. By: bp42810 on 01-09-2013 17:12:39 49. Thanks for responding to my proposal for Chisenhall. I see Chisenhall as offering very similar offensive production that we get from Seager. Seager, being the better defender of the two, could play multiple positions, still get 550-600 AB, and provide an offensive upgrade to the status quo. I was thinking of seeing Seager at SS and 2B as well as his usual 3B. Chisenhall could pick up 400 ABs from Andino (who wouldn't make the roster)and Ryan, and who knows maybe he could get at least as proficient as Ibanez and Bay in LF for more ABs. I was simply looking for a way to add more hitting somewhere. I would prefer a proposal like this where you get a young player who will hold value rather than an aging vet who is defensively deficient. I also didn't think there were too many opportunities to do that without giving up one of our Top 5 prospects ala an Upton, Ethier, or Stanton proposal (which will have to feel like overpays to even be considered). A trade like this could also free up an opportunity to trade Seager in a package for one of those bigger bats. If we keep Hultzen, Walker, Paxton, and Felix, then Maurer's value at best to us would be a 5th starter. I know he is more valuable than that, but to improve our offensive production we will have to find ways to get more productive bats. |
| 56. By: cpuglisi on 01-09-2013 17:30:00 Personally, the only guy that I would consider trading for is morse. Washington trades: Mike Morse Seattle trades: some prospect that is low i am talking anthony Fernandez or possibly a brandon mauer if you want to go higher. I would throw in Lucas Luetge or furbush. Why Washington does it: Washington when you look at its roster it really does not need a whole lot in terms of upgrades. the only thing that washington really lacks is a lefthanded reliever. The mariners have three of thise in Luetge, Perez and Furbush. The only reason i did not mention perez is becuase perez just signed. You through in a low lvl prospect or somebody like brandon mauer even though the nationals really don't need more starting pitching. Why seattle does it: well its no secret that seattle needs offense but why give up Hulzen, Paxton, walker, capps, pryor, just to get a guy like Justin Upton who had a down year or stanton, who is good but would just make the mariners fall back in terms of talent on the ball club. Then five years from now, u are talking walker succeding in marlins uniform or paxton succeding in an arizona uniform. These types of deals is what got bavasi in trouble. Morse is guy that i don't think would cost very much. he would be an upgrade. This whole Idea of the mariners trading prospects for big time talent really is not the answer to everybodies problems. The mariners should hold on and keep acumilating talent through the draft. the mariners need to show there fans at least an 83 to 85 win team that is at least an 8 to a ten win imrovement. and churchill i would love to get your take on the draft for 2013 this kid justin williams seems like the real deal. |
| 57. By: KNBunyan on 01-09-2013 17:32:16 Mariners get Anthony Gose Blue Jays get Charlie Furbush and Mike Carp Seattle gets a young Center Fielder who can fill the leadoff role for years to come and will be cheap allowing them to flip Gutierrez for a starting pitcher likely from the Dodgers. Plus Gose has a rocket of an arm for a center fielder. Toronto gets a valuable lefty reliever to add to their bullpen, assuming Darren Oliver will retire, to go with there world series or bust attitude. They get a cheap left handed bench player in case Lind has another down year, and with Rasmus, Bautista, Melky and Rajai Davis, it makes Gose expendable |
| 58. By: Mackie on 01-09-2013 17:38:02 Similar to (and inspired) by a couple of earlier suggestions: Dodgers get Andrew Carraway, Hector Noesi and Vinny Catricala Mariners get Chris Capuano You might laugh and ask "Why would the Dodgers do this?" My response would be "Why wouldn't they?" As for the prospects I mention, 1) they are not trash, 2) L.A. doesn't have a particularly strong farm system, and 3) this trade helps them add farm depth, along with 4) taking some dollars off their payroll. For the M's, it 1) adds a SP who should be capable, and 2) does not gut the farm system by any stretch (nor should it have to). I also wouldn't be too interested in trading Maurer until the M's have seen more of what he can do, which puts me in fairly close agreement with #13 and #36. I wouldn't be so keen on the M's trading Anthony Fernandez yet, either. Capuano doesn't really appear on LA's rotation depth chart, and although he's pretty decent he might not cost the M's a lot. He would slot in nicely in the 2-4 range for the Mariners. The Dodgers get a couple of pitching prospects in return and Catricala is included because he might still break through, and 3B doesn't look like a sure thing for L.A. If the Dodgers need hitting in return more than they need pitching? Substitute a B-level hitting prospect for one of the two pitchers then. |
| 59. By: greentunic on 01-09-2013 17:45:58 I'm not sure I'm breaking a rule by proposing a realistic deal that definitely won't happen, but let's see how it goes. Mariners aquire Jose Bautista and Edwin Encarnacion Blue Jays aquire Felix Hernandez and Justin Smoak Mariners get two powerful bats, both relatively young and can promote some of the Big Three and sign someone like Saunders to fill out rotation. Blue Jays aquire a bona fide ace to help their runs allowed (6th worst in MLB in 2012). Can play Rajai Davis in OF and can see if Smoak can put it together to improve on a sub-par Adam Lind at first. Not saying I want it to happen. just a proposal. |
| 60. By: WSChamps2014 on 01-09-2013 17:46:29 58, I love this trade, it makes a lot of sense. I would even suggest trading out Carp for Catricala, since Carp doesn't have option and Crawford won't be ready to play to start the season. But even with Cat the Bat, it's a very nice trade option. |
| 61. By: WSChamps2014 on 01-09-2013 17:52:53 59, I see three things wrong with your trade... 1) If I'm trading Felix, I want YOUNG controllable players and it would be something like a 3-way deal that nets a young stud like Stanton, plus a couple interesting pieces like Grandal, and Liriano, with us adding some pieces obviously. 2) Those guys are 85 HRs of their offense, and without them, their rotation won't matter because they won't score runs with just Reyes, Cabrera, and Lawrie. 3) Putting two 30+ guys in the lineup like that, when we aren't ready to compete is like saying you want to reset the rebuild in 2 years when we fail to when a title. Even if we were to get better that's just another reason the Jays wouldn't want a net negative in WAR. |
| 62. By: Gibbo on 01-09-2013 18:23:35 The problem with #58 is the Dodgers are arleady on 40 for their roster and need to clear some space... i see the dodgers doing a deal where they give more guys away than they receive - like the deal for Cap though, just not sure they would want Noesi or Catricalla. Maybe they would but they might give us more back so a 2 for 1 deal or 3 for 2, I would swap Catricalla for Liddi and try get Dee Gordon. |
| 63. By: greentunic on 01-09-2013 18:32:35 61. 1) I was thinking Stanton, but knew Miami would never take on his contract, especially now that they're aparently rebuilding. 2) Toronto would probably have a bad offense afterwards, I agree. 3) I think getting two hitter like that could make a difference if our young core makes at least some progress. I mean, why were we trying to get an aging Hamilton if we're not trying to compete? In the end, I wouldn't want to do it anyway without a Trout, Harper, or Stanton. |
| 64. By: titans12 on 01-09-2013 19:06:54 How about A Soriano for a couple lower level prospects and the cubs pickup most of his salary.He can still hit and we can stick him in LF and bat him 3rd. |
| 65. By: WSChamps2014 on 01-09-2013 19:15:04 63, I have been thinking a lot about trading Hernandez and these are the stipulations... #1 - The rebuild blows up in our faces, and they set themselves back another 3 years from competing. AND #2 - Two of the young guns take off. If Walker is a legit TOR at 21 years old and Hultzen is a #3 in a year, then you can start thinking to trade Felix. AND #3 - Jack gets fired. As long as he's here it means everything is going good still with the rebuild. If he gets fired, it's because #1 and #2 didn't happen. Either way, I expect a Felix extension, if for nothing more than to raise his trade value going forward. The difference with getting Hamilton is we would have still had Felix... Felix + Hamilton for 5+ years is better than Edwin for 2 years and Bautista for 3 years. Also, remember that Felix is the most consistent of the 4 guys we're talking about. If we were going to trade with the Blue Jays it would've been for Syndergaard, D'Arnaud, Aaron Sanchez, and Lawrie before the Dickey trade. Once they got Dickey, their farm system was destroyed and they weren't desperate for an ace. I still think we get a big bat: Upton, Braun, Stanton, Oscar Taveras, CarGo, or something like the trade I suggested for Leonys Martin and Mike Olt, before the end of the offseason. I just don't think Jack wants to enter year 5 with this roster. It's all infield/catcher/DH heavy. We can make a great 9-man lineup, we just can't do it without sacrificing a ridiculous amount of defense in the outfield by playing someone way out of position, like Jaso in LF or Morales in RF. The best move for this team is to get some outfield help, even if it means burning a few prospects to do it, because as it is, we don't have anywhere to put them all and we have a ton of guys about to push up from A-ball into the upper minors. |
| 66. By: rjfrik on 01-09-2013 19:30:34 #54 I like it but I don't see the Cards liking it. Why would the Cards trade a logjam for a logjam (Adams for Smoak). My guess is they wouldn't. I'm sure they would love to get their hands on Franklin. But Smoak would be a no go IMO. And Rosensal might be underrated to the average fan but not to most FO's. He's valued a lot higher. #56 Seattle could be in on Morse, but I doubt it. He's essentially blocked by people already on the team. And for one year of Morse I'm not sure he's worth more to the M's then a reliever. #57 I love the idea of getting Gose. But Gose has a bit more value then that, IMO. Maybe add in another throw in minor league guy and that could get the deal done. I would love Gose as a M. #58. Mackie. Way too much given up there! I bet Dodgers would do a Cat the Bat trade straight up for Cap. Why throw in the other players? ... I know, "to get the deal done" :) #59 Eeww. As much as fun it would be to have those two guys in the middle of your lineup, Felix is just worth more. I know that may sound strange, but he is to the Ms anyways. #64. Titans I would do that. Better then Bay or Ibanez out there that's for sure. |
| 67. By: jgthompson21 on 01-09-2013 19:45:01 I will play the hypothetical trade game. Here is my scenario. Its 2 trades simultaniously. With one being a 2 team trade followed by a 3 team trade. First: Seattle trades Luetge and Carp to Washington for Morse. Washington does this because they would like a LH relief pitcher and Carp is Morse (OF/1B-without needing alot of playing time). Seattle does this because Morse can hit and help right now while allowing the next trade to occur. Second: Three team trade with Detroit, Baltimore, Seattle. Detroit: Wilhelmsen, Hardy, Wells Baltimore: Smoak, Peralta, mid-level from Det Seattle: Porcello, Garcia, Britton Detroit wants Hardy and needs a closer. They also want a RH platoon bat in the OF. Baltimore has wanted Smoak for a few years and by getting Peralta can move Machado to SS. Seattle has a need for an OF prospect and Garcia fits that mold. Porcello fits in how Seattle plays(ground ball pitcher with good defense). Britton was once a promising prospect that needs a change. Hes a reclamation guy that could move to the pen or traded when the big 3 are ready. Realistic trades, but like most, unlikely. |
| 68. By: Rampageoholics on 01-09-2013 20:13:53 I know that Felix isn't going anywhere, but... Washington receives: Felix Hernandez Nick Franklin Seattle receives: Bryce Harper Anthony Rendon I love Felix but I think it is a great trade for both teams. Seattle's lineup is greatly upgraded for years while Washington builds a World Series winning rotation. Sure would be a fun trade to see go down. |
| 69. By: Mackie on 01-09-2013 20:23:50 @67, I like the first part of that one because I think Luetge has higher value right now than he might ever have, and because I like Carp, I think he could still be a useful player, and I think he could use a "change of scenery". And it would allow us to keep Capps and Pryor. I was thinking "Where would Morse fit in" but if Smoak was traded I could see Morse working. All in all I don't think your idea is bad, and that maybe with changing a few names of players involved, it might work. If it was Smoak, Wells and Wilhelmsen we were giving up, I'm guessing that means Capps or Pryor would be the new closer for Seattle? Or maybe Charlie? 8-) I'm pretty high on all three of those guys, and I think any of them could do it. |
| 70. By: Panhead55 on 01-09-2013 20:43:36 #67 Britton like Porcello is a severe ground baller. I'd love to see the Ms acquire either or both. I think Baltimore would want a bit more than a mid level prospect along with Peralta and Smoak. |
| 71. By: Panhead55 on 01-09-2013 20:49:06 #68 I love the thinking but the Nats would say no. Harper given his salary and team control is worth more than Felix and his $20 mil a year contract and Rendon is a better prospect than Franklin. |
| 72. By: iheartfelix on 01-09-2013 22:27:45 #68 Gotta agree that there is no way the Nat's give up Harper. Felix is incredible, but he has already used up at least 1/3 of his bullets, and is a greater injury risk simply because he is a pitcher. I think there are probably on 2 guys they would move Harper for; Trout and maybe Stanton if they are confident that his knees will hold up. |
| 73. By: greentunic on 01-10-2013 00:12:00 WS Champs, I like your logic. Felix IS my favorite player anyway :) Still fun to think what an equal value package would look like. Not easy to evaluate that. |
| 74. By: randyman84 on 01-10-2013 00:37:21 Before I say my trade scenario i'll tell you to keep an open mind about Mike Morse and visit Seattlesportsinsider.com. I changed my stance on Morse. My trade scenario. 1B/LF Morse for LHP Luetge, LHP Furbush, 1B Carp Nats reason.. lefty relievers Leutge and Furbush are welcomed in their right handed heavy bullpen. Leutge has good numbers, Furbush has great numbers. Carp gets them a huge 1B/OF option in case of injury.I love Carp but this needs to be done to outbid the Yankees,Redsox, and Orioles. Mariners reason.. Morse brings huge power to both fields(have you looked at his homerun chart lately? 2011,2012 wow ) Put him at 1B and let Smoak sit in Tacoma to correct himself all year if need be to bring his trade value back. Offer Morse 13mil after the season to atleast receive a draft pick. Morse,Montero,Morales (3/4/5) This deal also lets Seattle keep/showcase ALL of last years AAA prospects (Hultzen,Paxton,Franklin,Capps,Pryor) to prep for a huge Stanton trade as soon as July. Possible package of Smoak,Hultzen,Walker,Seager,Franklin. Morse,Stanton,Morales (3/4/5) |
| 75. By: zbrown on 01-10-2013 06:51:46 3-team deal that makes sense for all parties: Tigers Get: JJ Hardy, Jim Johnson Mariners Get: Rick Porcello Orioles Get: Justin Smoak, Jhonny Peralta, Nick Castellanos Tigers get an elite defensive SS and a proven closer. Mariners get a 5th starter to round out their rotation. Orioles take a chance on Smoak, put Peralta at 3B as a stopgap until Castellanos can take over and slide Machado to SS. |
| 76. By: WSChamps2014 on 01-10-2013 07:49:00 75, no way Tigers trade Peralta, Porcello, AND Castellanos for JJ Hardy and Jim Johnson. Impossible. They value Castellanos way too much. You could do that trade without Castellanos in it and the weight for each team would be about perfect, but I would want more than Porcello for Smoak, that is selling very low since Porcello is a 5th starter in the ilk of Beavan. Would you trade Smoak for Beavan? If the answer is yes, I would read the criticisms of Beavan on lookoutlanding.com, ussmariner.com, and I think Jason has even had some choice words about Beavan, as well. |
| 77. By: randyman84 on 01-10-2013 07:49:31 Thats a good trade scenario Zbrown. I could see something like that work out atleast from Mariners and orioles side. Im not sure who Jim Johnson is actually . I better go look ,lol. |
| 78. By: zbrown on 01-10-2013 07:55:20 I think the Tigers get really nice value here. JJ Hardy > Peralta (and he's signed for 2 years, instead of 1) and Johnson >> Porcello. I realize Castellanos is valued highly, but the Tigers are in win-now mode, which this trade definitely does for them. I would think the Orioles (or Mariners) could also throw a C-level prospect to the Tigers to get this done. If the Mariners do not value Porcello enough, I would think the O's could include a different SP from a group that includes Zach Britton, Brian Matusz, Jake Arrieta, Steve Johnson, and possibly even Chris Tillman. I think the basic outline makes sense though. It just depends on how highly teams think of some of these guys (Jim Johnson included). |
| 79. By: Paul Martin on 01-10-2013 09:39:07 @13, @17, @37, @58, @66 You guys all think LA is going to give away Chris Capuano for B and C level prospects or guys on our roster that can't make our team and are out of options??? I think you are dead wrong and the best thing about it is this guy is going to get traded, and when he does, we will see who is right!!! |
| 80. By: Gibbo on 01-10-2013 10:35:04 Paul, it will be interesting what the dodgers get for him but they need a rightie OF and ideally someone that covers 1st. So I could see the M's doing a bigger deal and sending Morse across to the Dodgers for Capuano, then you would just need to work out the acquisition cost from the Nationals. I just wouldn't trade Mauer or Capps for Capuano myself, he is a good SP but so are other free agent starters. Wells would work for the Dodgers, again I would rather keep him. But if there is more coming back them Mauer could come into play. Like you say we will find out soon enough.... |
| 81. By: Paul Martin on 01-10-2013 11:06:12 @80 in my post #11 I suggested two prospects for Capuano, and while I am probably off on the exact names of the prospects we would give up, I really doubt "B" or "C" level prospects will get it done. Your mention of trading for Morse and then flipping him to LA for Capuano sounds unlikely to me, but Morse is more valuable than a B or C level prospect... |
| 82. By: Panhead55 on 01-10-2013 11:35:39 I'm personally not a big fan of Capuano. He's 34 and coming off his career year. Given that 2012 was a career year at age 33, I'd expect regression. Add in the fact that he has never pitched in the AL, I'd expect some addition concerns there. In his favor is the fact that he is LHed and slots into the rotation well. He is merely a gap filler til the young kids are ready. He is not a player I'd expend any appreciable assets on. |
| 83. By: maqman on 01-10-2013 11:49:19 I think I would rather stick with what we have. |
| 84. By: Gibbo on 01-10-2013 12:09:45 Panhead, I think thats the key he is a gap filler with just a year left on his contract so there is no risk and I think thats why you would pay accordingl, I would like a better player but am thinking of a guy that fills a need without longterm commitment. I would prefer Porcello myself, but the cost may be prohibitive there. Yep understand Paul agreed Morse will cost more than a B or C level prospect - not sure hopw much more as there will defintiely be some teams competing for his services so he will probably cost more than I'd be willing to pay. Again though I would pay more if the Dodgers were sending more value back than just Capuano. |
| 85. By: Edman on 01-10-2013 12:21:45 I'd rather resign Millwood than to give prospects up for a #5 starter. There are options out there at the moment. I wouldn't give up too much for something you can find for around $1 million a season. That's what makes Capuano only worth B and C prospects. |
| 86. By: WSChamps2014 on 01-10-2013 12:27:48 78, The Tigers don't get really nice value out of the deal. In fact the value is horrible. Would you want to trade one of Hultzen, Walker or Zunino for J.J. Hardy and Jim Johnson? Your proposal is like making that trade plus adding Peralta and Porcello just for kicks. Porcello alone, while I don't care much for him, would seem to be able to return a package of Hardy and Johnson alone, if traded to the Orioles and the Tigers were interested in those players. Who is Jim Johnson? He's an extreme groundball pitcher, who will get torched the moment he starts elevating his pitchers due to his absurdly low strikeout rate for a late inning reliever. He also generated most of his value the last two years from IP in 2011 and then the number of save situations he had in 2012. He projects to 3.0 WAR as a 30-31 year old during the last two years of his club control. After arbitration raises, he'll make about $15M in 2012 and 2013, meaning that he'll be worth about what he gets paid. There's almost no surplus value to garner in a trade for the Orioles, making him untradeable unless they see him as a salary dump blocking other more talented and/or younger relievers they have inthe system. However, they don't see him that way as their pitching is muttled at best, which is why they gave him a chance to close this last season. Who is JJ Hardy? Exactly the same player as Johnny Peralta. Defensive runs saved over the last two seasons: Peralta (19.8) Hardy (22.1) Triple slash line career: Peralta 264/327/422 with an OPS of 749 Hardy 259/314/427 with an OPS of 741 wOBA and wRC+ career: Peralta .328 (wOBA) & 100 (wRC+) Hardy .322 (wOBA) & 95 (wRC+) The biggest difference between them has been Hardy's ability to run the bases better. But even then Peralta (7.8 WAR) has been worth 0.2 WAR more than Hardy (7.6 WAR) over the last two seasons and Peralta gets paid $1M less per season. They are even the same age with Hardy being born 3 months after Jhonny. As for Porcello? Porcello has been worth 2.7 WAR (2011) and 2.9 WAR (2012) the last two seasons, while before that he was worth exactly 2 WAR a season in both 2009 and 2010. After being paid $3.1M as a 1st-year (super 2) arbitration eligible player, with three more years of control, he's project to earn about $5M, $8M, & $11M for his 24-26 year old seasons. Making him incredibly valueable and likely to improve as his strikeout numbers have increased each season, while he has been able to sustain an above-average walk rate. If we assume only modest gains in WAR total each year for projections of 3.1, 3.3, & 3.6, he'll be worth about 10 WAR or $55M in trade value. Subtracting his $24M in salary, brings his value to a +$31M not including that at those levels, his acquiring team would be able to offer him arbitration as a free agent with little worry of him accepting their offer as they'd get a 4 WAR ($22M value) pitcher for $13-$14M in salary with no long term risk. So to put it all the trade values together after subtracting their salaries: TIGERS GIVE Porcello = $31M + 1st round sup. rd. pick or $8M additional value. Peralta = $10M in excess value if you see him as a 3 WAR player Castellanos = $25M as a prospect rated in the Top 11-25 Hitters. TOTAL = $74M or $66M + a 1st round pick Hardy = $20M (2 years) in excess value if you see him as a 3 WAR player Johnson = <$2M in trade value due to salary TOTAL $22M in trade value, if you are being generous. I do retract my statement about the Porcello for Smoak swap, as Porcello has a better track record and is a couple years younger. Even if I don't like him personally and would much rather have Smoak, I don't want to be a hypocrite. So sorry for jumping you on that point without doing my research first. However, I wouldn't make the trade unless I had a long-term solution at 1B to replace Smoak. I don't believe the MLB Trade Rumors speculation about a Cubs, Orioles, Tigers trade involving Hardy and Porcello that came out a little while back. I'm just spitballing here, but to make your trade work, it would have to be something like: Mariners gets: Porcello Tigers get: Hardy Reimold Orioles get: Peralta Smoak However, I would rather get Smyly back as the return for Smoak. So you could do literally the same trade, only the Mariners get Smyly and Boesch, since Porcello has more preceived value. |
| 87. By: WSChamps2014 on 01-10-2013 13:06:18 Hey guys, I have another trade idea that I was thinking about, but I'm not sure how to make it work... Maybe you all have some ideas... Giants get: Franklin Gutierrez, Blake Beavan, and Hector Noesi Mariners get: Tim Lincecum +$5-$7M The way I see it, they need someone to replace Cabrera in San Francisco, plus they need to dump some salary. This allows them to do it, while getting Lincecum a change of scenary. They know that he's a negative asset while being paid $22M and I'm sure they don't want to offer him arbitration next year unless he's a real stud TOR again. If he's a 2-3 WAR player in 2013, then they would deal with backlash from the fans for letting him walk, whereas they could get stuck paying him, if he thinks his best chance at a big payday is another season in the bay area. Beavan takes Lincecum's place at the back of the rotation, while Noesi at least gives them some upside to compensate them for what could be a hypothetical 1st round pick. It doesn't hurt that San Francisco is the most HR suppressing park in the majors, considering it's only his homeruns that hold him back. Anybody have any other ideas to make the Lincecum/Gutierrez trade work? I really don't see a reason to carry a backup CF with a checkered injury history at $7.5M a year, while we have Saunders out there in CF or some other young CF that we get through trade, like the Leonys Martin trade I proposed earlier in #38 of this blog. |
| 88. By: StarChaser on 01-10-2013 13:38:57 Some of the best ideas I saw on here were trading for prospects like Oscar Taveras who may be obtainable if we traded someone like Brad Miller or Nick Franklin who would become St. Louis' best SS prospect along with some pitching prospects like Maurer/Paxton & Capps/Pryor (GM's always say you can't have too much pitching). While none of these prospects is as good as Taveras, it adds depth to St. Louis' talent pool. So this trade is only a bonus to St. Louis if they see it worth while adding 3 slightly above average prospects (B to B+) for 1 very highly touted (A/A+) prospect. The other option would be to trade Tajuan Walker straight across for Taveras, which could be tempting. The other prospect mentioned was Nick Castellanos who was brought up to be a third basemen and now being converted into a corner outfielder. He probably wouldn't cost as much as Taveras and if packaged with Rick Porcello would be a great addition. We need another innings eater (Porcello) and a power corner outfield bat who is a righty that would suppliment all of our lefties would be great. I'm not sure what Detroit's interest in Franklin, Paxton, Baurer would be, but I Detroit needs a closer like Tom Wilhelmsen who I would give up in a heartbeat to acquire Castellanos. Detroit may also be interested in someone like Brendan Ryan who offers gold glove quality defense (they tried to trade for JJ Hardy). I doubt we could acquire both Castellanos and Porcello together, but they both are intriguing. The one veteran that no one mentioned that I would trade for is Asdrubal Cabrera. He slots in nicely as the either the #2 or #3 hitter in Seattle's lineup. He still plays serviceable defense, but more importantly hits very well for a SS. I'm sure if you traded Paxton/Maurer, John Hicks and Justin Smoak you could swing a trade for Cabrera. He still has 2 years left on his contract, giving Brad Miller & Nick Franklin more time to develop. Cleveland wants more pitching, Hicks provides more depth at catcher (Santana may not work out there) and right now they do not have much first base prospects and Reynolds is penciled in to start at first. They also have an abundance of SS prospects along with Aviles who can man the position until Francisco Lindor is ready. |
| 89. By: Gibbo on 01-10-2013 13:41:29 Wow trading or Lincecum is out there.... but I can see the logic. Just dont know if I would pull the trigger on it because if Guti is finally healthy he could have a great year. |
| 90. By: dewey on 01-10-2013 13:55:45 I dont get why people on this site think any team wants to give any players for Smoak he hasnt been a very good player for 3 years. |
| 91. By: Paul Martin on 01-10-2013 14:33:54 @90 Thank you, I couldn't agree with you more!!! Teams are not banging down our door asking for players that haven't produced. If we are able to trade a Smoak, it will be selling real low. Same thing goes for players like Mike Carp, Hector Noesi, and Vinnie Catricala. It is also true to a lesser extent on a player like Rule 5 acquisition Luetge. Please people, if you are going to trade for talent, you have to give something up. People are not going to take our crap and give us players we need. |
| 92. By: Got_HEEM on 01-10-2013 14:33:59 Jason, Got a great trade proposal for the M's. How about we trade Justin Smoak, Brandon Maurer and Carter Capps for Eric Hosmer. Hosmers value is down from last year but this kid can and will figure it out and be a 30-40 homer guy in his prime. |
| 93. By: Paul Martin on 01-10-2013 14:41:20 @87 If you are a Seahawk fan, you will understand my next comparison. I look at Franklin Gutierrez in a similiar light to Russell Okung. Okung was always injured his first couple years in the league, and the injuries were really freakish in nature, with each injury not really related to the other. The guy showed flashes of brilliance, but couldn't stay on the field. He was healthy for the first time this year, and is going to the pro bowl. With his combo of offense and defense, I could see Gutierrez have a great year next year, especially with the shorter fences. We have to give this guy one last year to see if he can stay healthy. If he does, we pick up his option next year, and if not we say goodbye to him. @92 I would love to have Hosmer, but Kansas City is ALL IN TO WIN this year (they traded Will Myers!!!) and would not trade Hosmer for prospects. |
| 94. By: rjfrik on 01-10-2013 14:48:16 #85. Exactly Edman. Cap isn't worth any type of elite level prospect. He is a person the Dodgers must unload, so they really aren't holding any type of hand here. They won't be able to get max value out of him at all. #86. Nice Evaluation. Very nice research. I like your trade idea, if we have a backup for Smoak at 1B. #87. Way to think outside the box! I like the idea of trying to bring tiny tim back home. Just curious how much he has left in the tank though. |
| 95. By: cpuglisi on 01-10-2013 16:24:22 well people, even though i was not a fan of the mariners getting upton, apparently upton agrees with me. Acording to MLB Trade rumors and reported by jon paul morosi and ken rosenthal upton used his no trade clause to reject the mariners trade proposal. appently the mariners were going to offer a ton of young talent, which by it self would send the mariners back. Even though these may be rumors or jon paull morosi and rosenthals trying to find topics to talk about because hardly any activity at least until spring training. If you dont believe me click here: http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/01/justin-upton-rejects-trade-to-mariners.html |
| 96. By: Edman on 01-10-2013 16:55:02 I'm not sure how much of the Upton rumor to believe. Last week, we heard about trade offers for Stanton, that were not correct. The Marlins have a policy to listen to all trade offers, but that doesn't mean they were seeking a trade. mlbtraderumors.com is exactly what it title suggests, not necessarily based in fact. A lot of it is conjecture, worded in the body of the description to sound like more than it is. I'm not saying it isn't true, but just keep in mind that it's not a fact, until Upton or the Diamondbacks confirm that it is. |
| 97. By: dafix_isin on 01-10-2013 17:03:22 Alright, I was considering a trade proposal last night, but decided to procrastinate. Good thing I did, since it was to be a trade proposal that would've presupposed a successful trade for Justin Upton. Since that has just been officially rejected by Upton himself tonight, here's plan B: SEA gets: Giancarlo Stanton (duh... who else?) MIA gets (gulp): Montero, Seager, Hultzen, Paxton and Franklin Oh yeah, it's gotta hurt to have any chance of success. And it's gonna have to include a couple of guys with actual time in the bigs, a la Montero and Seager. Seattle does this because Justin frickin' Upton= bastard. Miami does this because they probably like some of the guys on my list and know now that the Mariners really mean it when they say then intend to get something done at RF. What better way for McLoria to get Stanton as far outta sight, outta mind than to "banish" him to South Alaska, while substantially bolstering their farm system. Admittedly, Montero isn't the greatest fit in the short-term, but he could also net additional bodies if MIA decides to turn around and deal him at a later date. Sigh, my master plan as of last night was to shuttle Montero off to Detroit AFTER Upton had become a Mariner. So much for that. |
| 98. By: rotoenquire on 01-10-2013 17:32:14 The Arizona Republic's Nick Piecoro has confirmed the report, and although it's not clear who exactly would have gone to Arizona in the deal, Piecoro says the package was "substantial." Upton has a limited no-trade clause, and the Mariners are obviously on it, though the report speculates that a deal between the two sides could possibly be revived. So Upton doesn't want to be an M. Think that may end that. |
| 99. By: Gibbo on 01-10-2013 17:35:29 Its funny though, easy to say well if he doesnt want to play for us then fine, but I guess he is just either saying bugger off or using leverage to get some money from us. We will know soon enough |
| 100. By: rotoenquire on 01-10-2013 17:43:18 The Rumored deal was One of the Big 3(Paxton, Walker, Hultzen) and N. Franklin, S. Pryer, C. Furbush for Upton. |
| 101. By: Gibbo on 01-10-2013 17:55:33 Its a great haul for the DBacks, but a deal that could have been OK - but a big price to pay, a lot depends which one of the big 3. But Franklin, Pryor and Furbush I would be OK with that part. We will probably never no |
| 102. By: Panhead55 on 01-10-2013 18:40:29 Who knows, maybe Colorado hears what we offered and calls Jack about trading Cargo. |
| 103. By: Richard_Manuel on 01-11-2013 01:34:01 Mariners receive: Allen Craig, Jaimie Garcia, and Shelby Miller (Cards no.1 prospect) Cardinals receive: Felix Hernandez Mariners get the best hitter with RISP in the NL on the cheap in his prime years (arbitration eligible first time in 2014), a young stud in Miller to replace Felix who will cost too much past his 30 year old birthday, and a solid lefty starter who can step right in the rotation. |
| 104. By: tpcman on 01-11-2013 06:51:20 Tijuan Walker James Paxton Dustin Ackley Carter Capps Nick Franklin for Giancarlo Stanton Logam Morrison Stanton-obvious Morrison---RF or 1st Base 2nd base fairly easy to fill with Ackley going, everything we send is unproven and receive back major league proven LH hitter. Arms are prospects, chances both hit big are very slim. |
| 105. By: WSChamps2014 on 01-11-2013 18:25:40 How about a trade involving he agreed upon deal for Upton, but a new destination... Diamondbacks get: SP Taijuan Walker SS Nick Franklin RP Stephen Pryor RP Charlie Furbush Nationals get: RF Justin Upton (Diamondbacks send $15M of Upton's contract) SP Danny Hultzen C John Jaso C John Hicks Mariners get: RF Bryce Harper C Kurt Suzuki CP Heath Bell (Mariners eat $9M of the $18M owed him) Upton, Hultzen, and Hicks are from Virginia, which should make them easier to extend later in their careers. They can also sell the trade as a homecoming of sorts for the three from Virginia. For casual fans, they would have traded a highly thought of prospect for a sure thing All-Star, a starting catcher, and another couple great prospects, which means they won't have to deal with a backlash from their fans, since Upton is seen a sure thing to the average fan. Technically the Nationals would be better in the immediate as Jaso is far better than anything else they have at catcher, while platooning nicely with Ramos. Upton would be worth probably as much as Harper in RF, while this trade would give them a future long-term backstop, an immediate addition to the rotation, and a 3 WAR catcher. The Nats are essentially trading Harper at a 5-6 WAR value, while avoiding a future marketing headache when Boras does to them with Harper, what he did to us with A-Rod. This might be selling low, but the Nats win this trade in the immediate future, and have a better than 50% chance of winning it in the long run, should Upton fulfill his potential close to home. The Diamondbacks get their guys for Upton and essentially the money that they received from Miami for Bell's contract + the Mariners giving them $9M help offset what they'll send for Upton to raise Justin's value to the Nats. It may seem far fetched, but atleast one large part of the equation is done, we know what the D-Backs want for Upton. So the rest is just making the Nationals happy. |
| 106. By: WSChamps2014 on 01-11-2013 18:30:42 In a normal trade, the Diamondbacks would cover 1/2 the salary just to get something for Bell, but the Mariners are going to essentially give the D-Backs $9M to help pay Upton's contract, by taking on the whole $18M. Arizona comes out $3M ahead on the money swap, plus what they received from Miami to take Bell in the first place. I had a typo in the first sentence... How about a trade involving THE agreed upon deal for Upton, but a new destination... |
| 107. By: WSChamps2014 on 01-11-2013 18:32:29 The league would never allow the Mariners to send money directly to the Nationals, so they have to take on a bad contract in Bell to essentially give money to the D-Backs, who then can give money to the Nationals to raise the return value of trading Harper. |
| 108. By: WSChamps2014 on 01-11-2013 18:42:40 The Mariners would also eat the whole $6.5M for Suzuki, and they could even send $11M for future salary considerations of John Jaso, if they need just a little more, rather than dipping into their prospects. |
| 109. By: StandinPat on 01-12-2013 13:06:56 Never minding the fact that Harper to to Upton would be a HUGE downgrade for the Nats, the double, triple and quadrupole novella posts are becoming quite tedious |
| 110. By: on 01-12-2013 13:24:21 Justin Smoak & Andrew Carraway to BAL for Zach Britton & Michael Ohlman The Orioles are pretty set in their rotation (Chen, Hammel, Tillman, Gonzalez, & Johnson/Hunter/Matusz/Arrieta w/ Bundy & Gausman fast-rising in the minors) & at catcher (Wieters & Teagarden w/ Luis Exposito & Luis Martinez in AAA). Last year they had Mark Reynolds & Chris Davis at 1B. They also had Jim Thome as a part-time DH in 2012. Both Thome & Reynolds have moved on & Davis is better suited for DH than 1B work. They can attempt to rehabilitate Smoak with Delmonico on the verge in case he falters. Britton is a lanky lefty with a heavy sinker. He increased his slider usage last year which cost him control but helped him miss bats. He averages 92 on both of his fastballs so he's not all soft-tosser. That sinker is good enough that he generated a 54.9 GB% over his first two seasons sporting a 4.09 xFIP over 214.2 innings w/ 223 hits allowed, 94 walks, & 150 strikeouts. Tighten up the control a bit & you have something. Part of why he is available is perception... his real ERA was 4.74 since his D wasn't very helpful behind him. Ohlman was suspended for a 'drug of abuse' but came back to play 50+ games & suddenly produced after two relatively unimpressive seasons straight out of high school. He was well-regarded when drafted & may just be figuring things out as he turned 22 last month. At 6'4 he managed to post a 33/27 BB/K ratio in the Sally League as a 21 yo. With those long arms to make contact & have solid pitch selection to boot was impressive & a giant leap forward from his previous two campaigns. He also sports a strong arm behind the dish. Worth a flyer. |
| 111. By: StarChaser on 01-12-2013 14:25:33 Seattle: Tom Wilhelmsen Nick Franklin Brandon Maurer Hector Noesi Detroit: Rick Porcello Avisail Garcia I say the M's offer Wilhelmsen who is cheap, experienced and good. The "Bartender" will help the Tigers in a win now mode. Detroit right now has no experienced closer on the roster and does not see Rafael Soriano as an option or they would have already signed him. If you add Nick Franklin and Brandon Maurer you have quality prospects that you are trading from organizational depth. Franklin seems destined to play second (Ackley blocking him) and you have Brad Miller for SS. Maurer is the fourth best pitcher behind the "Big Three." I say you also add Hector Noesi who could be seen as a possible starter, but for now a long relief option. Detroit trades Porcello who will be the innings eater the M's need. Pitching in Safeco along with a great middle infield will help Porcello who is a ground ball pitcher. He is still very young (just turned 24) and could mature into the player Detroit thought he would in Seattle. The other player is Avisail Garcia who is ready now, but still has minor league options if the M's want to polish him up in Tacoma. Seattle needs someone with power playing in right field and Garcia is 6'4" and 220 lbs who was Detroit's number one outfield prospect before Castellanos was converted to an outfielder. I think Castellanos is nearly untouchable unless you want to give up one of the "Big Three" pitchers along with someone like Nick Franklin and that is without the M's obtaining Porcello. So Avisail Garcia could be a real find in a trade centered around Porcello. Yes, you give up Wilhelmsen, but while you have Carter Capps, Stephen Pryor and Carson Smith in a rebuilding year. Do you really need Wilhelmsen who could eventually be passed up by one of those potential closers if you're not contending? I say trade the "Bartender" to a Tiger team who needs him now and add Porcello with Garcia to build for the future while being able to use them this year. Detroit gets a future second basemen and starter (potentially 2 starters) while adding relief help, which they need. |
| 112. By: krob4mvp on 01-18-2013 16:35:32 @111 I am with you on a Detroit trade. Seattle Receives: Rick Porcello Avisail Garcia Austin Schotts Detroit Receives: Nick Franklin Tom Wilhelmsen Casper Wells * Unfortunately in the market this offseason prospects aren't worth shit, but I can't see Detroit getting a better SS prospect than Franklin for Porcello. Furthermore, we are giving up a very solid closer with club control and a solid right handed outfielder in Casper Wells, both major leaguers mind you, for Detroits #2 and #5 prospects according to B.A. I would love this trade for our side because we get a solid #3 and get a nice outfield prospect and a 1A type prospect IMO, in Garcia. |
| 113. By: krob4mvp on 01-18-2013 16:39:26 Furthermore, Detroit receives a top tier SS/2B prospect near pro ready. A very solid and cheap closer, who can also help Bruce Rondon progress, and they get another right handed ML Outfield bat in Casper Wells. I think this trade helps both parties at hand. |
| 114. By: krob4mvp on 01-18-2013 16:58:24 *This trade would make me a happy camper even though I know it will never happen and I will probably get blasted for it. I am just so tired of watching Felix wasting his talent here in Seattle when this is the ultimate offseason to pickup some great prospects for him and I know Ben Cherrington would do this in a heartbeat Boston Recives: Felix Hernandez Mike Carp Franklin Gutierrez Seattle Receives: Xander Bogaerts Jackie Bradley Jr. Matt Barnes Garrin Cecchini Jacoby Ellsbury |
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