| By Jason A. Churchill |  | By 06-04-2011 |
Included in this quick update are notes on the M's No. 2 pick -- and that's about it. But you aren't going to want to miss this.
NOTE: It's important to note that none of the sources for this information came from the Seattle Mariners or anyone close to the players involved.
Subscribers can get the latest by clicking here.
The above file will be updated as I hear different things that could make an impact. Check back often.
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Comments
The following 119 comment(s) for this article are shown below:
| 1. By: baseballman on 06-04-2011 15:56:57 That is an awesome "tidbit" of information. I can't wait until the draft on Monday. That is a very exciting writeup because that is the player I'm most curious about. Loads of potential it seems. |
| 2. By: Jason A. Churchill on 06-04-2011 17:30:36 I have deleted the 11 comments after No. 1 to avoid the premium info becoming, well, public domain. Feel free to email me -- churchill@prospectinsider.com -- if you have questions, but i'd like to keep the details on the QT and truly reward subscribers. |
| 3. By: dawgncarolina on 06-04-2011 17:32:26 dude my bad, major apology. won't happen again. |
| 4. By: Jason A. Churchill on 06-04-2011 17:37:19 no worries... it's my fault. |
| 5. By: rjfrik on 06-04-2011 18:08:48 So Fricking Awesome!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! My favorite player in the draft will be an Mariner (maybe..hopefully). God I love that player, he is going to be one of the top 5 players in the game when he comes up and will sustain that status for 10 years. Just watch. Reminds me of another high pick we got way back when. Let's just hope that we can keep him from bolting when he hits Free Agency. This just made my weekend. |
| 6. By: 01v-dubs on 06-04-2011 18:20:35 This one postnhas made it worth being a subscriber tenfold. Honestly I'm not to sure how I feel about it if that player is the pick, but as has been proven the past few drafts jack and co know what they're doing, so I'll be happy regardless. Thanks Jason, this info is truly awesome. |
| 7. By: 01v-dubs on 06-04-2011 18:24:42 Also, Jason do you know of any players that could slip because of signability that the M's might be interested in taking a chance on later in the draft? |
| 8. By: kath99208 on 06-04-2011 18:27:03 Any chance you can put a comments section inside the premium area? |
| 9. By: SMariners11 on 06-04-2011 18:28:08 One wonders how this will affect our system and how they view certain players. |
| 10. By: Marco on 06-04-2011 18:47:03 Positively since we have no premium prospect at that position |
| 11. By: CyFelix on 06-04-2011 18:58:51 Yawn. Not a "supposed pick" fan. Rendon is fine or else he wouldn't have played second. I don't see the potential and when he's becoming an all-star, we're all going to regret it and think "what if." Then someones going to bring up this post and say "we all thought this guy was going to be great, but now he's just average." |
| 12. By: marinermutt on 06-04-2011 18:59:05 Jason, is there any chance there could be a pre-draft deal in place? In your view, does he sign quickly or will this be a August 15th signing. I hate the August signings as it delays the opportunity for players to get 1/2 year of pro ball experience. I know the last minute signings are the norm as they hope to get the most out of the team that drafted them, but if you can get to the majors a year earlier by signing shortly after the draft, then you can make up that extra you might receive on August 15th with major league money and your service time clocks starts a year earlier. |
| 13. By: Jon O on 06-04-2011 19:15:43 Jason - it seems that you are much higher on the 'player mentioned' than KLAW. Why such as disparity? |
| 14. By: Rudolf on 06-04-2011 19:38:15 yeah, I've got to say I'm with the above post that is about to be deleted. |
| 15. By: bakomariner on 06-04-2011 19:51:58 I'm truly disappointed if he is the pick...he's number 5 on my board (which means nothing to anyone but me)...he might be a perenial all-star, but he's not who I was hoping we'd get once I read today that Pitt has already made their choice...here's to hoping I'm dead wrong... |
| 16. By: Jason A. Churchill on 06-04-2011 19:57:15 Rudolf gets the gold for best comment of the day! Bodhizefa, Where have I written that I am hellbent that Lindor is a better option outside my major concerns for Rendon's health/performance with the new bat? Jon O, I'm a little higher on him than Law, the big disparity comes in what Keith believes will occur and what I believe will occur. Keith's smarter than I am and has way more contacts than me, I just feel like this guy is the pick. CyFelix, You have drank the Rendon/Boras kool-aid. So because he played second ONE GAME, he's fine? Then why isn't he playing third? Why isn't he lighting up college pitching right now? Rendon could very well become a .300/.400/.500 gold glove third baseman. I just think there are a lot of UNANSWERED questions about him and I personally wouldn't take that risk knowing what I know. Like I have said, I don't know everything, but it doesn't sound like clubs know a whole lot more in the positive direction. |
| 17. By: Jason A. Churchill on 06-04-2011 19:58:28 kath, Currently that is not possible. If I ever get around to a re-design -- it takes more of MY time than I thought it would -- that will be part of it, for sure. |
| 18. By: krob4mvp on 06-04-2011 19:59:43 With word the the Pirates are taking Gerrit Cole; I would hope the Mariners take Rendon or Starling. IMO, the aforementioned player on JAC's post just doesn't seem to be a true game-changer for the #2 pick. I love the attribute qualities, leadership, and overall talent that I have researched on the kid but at the end of the day I would love to have the other two. It seems as though Starling is a Mike Trout type and Rendon reminds me a lot of Ryan Braun when Braun was in college at the "U" playing the 3 bag. I guess we will all see who we pick on Monday. -Cheers my Mariner Brothers! |
| 19. By: baseballman on 06-04-2011 20:01:21 Post 11 makes me laugh. |
| 20. By: rocketdawg31 on 06-04-2011 20:20:49 If it happens, so be it. That player mentioned, I've seen video on. I can totally understand the hype he's getting. He impresses in several ways. And when it comes to drafting, "In Z (AND McNamara) I Trust". For me, the real fun is going to begin after round three or four, to see if we can roll dice on premium talents slipping through the signability cracks again...and sign them. Dang, it's fun to be a Mariners fan right now. The team's playing over its collective head, but winning. The 2010 draft and recent IFA classes are beginning to prove themselves in the system. Smoak and Pineda are arriving for good. And this guy at #2 this year...well, if he's the real deal, sky's the limit. That definitely looks like slivers of daylight getting bigger and brighter that I see. |
| 21. By: CyFelix on 06-04-2011 21:34:05 What makes you say that, baseballman? He's going to be exactly what we already have in our system. Except we know where he'll be playing. Nothing exciting. Rendon is going to bring the excitement the best hitters are bringing. If Rendon is projected for 20-25 HR, what makes you think that guy will hit 20? He'll be a guy you get to finalize a roster, not one you build around. |
| 22. By: Blowgun7 on 06-04-2011 21:40:03 Meh, why not Starling? The upside is greater than anybody in this draft. Kid is a total freak athlete with great work ethic. He's the only player in this draft who would bring Bryce Harper, Jason Heyward, type buzz when he debuts |
| 23. By: Edman on 06-04-2011 21:47:52 It kills me how some Rendon fans are so convinced he's the pick, based on two previous seasons. I totally agree with what Jason said. If his shoulder is healthy, why wasn't he playing third? Could it be because it's a shorter throw? Rendon may very well be a great pick. There are enough questions about his health that teams should be doing a thorough job of investigating what they do know. All draft picks come with risks, even top ten picks. Regardless of who Seattle picks, I feel comfortable with their reasoning. I won't look back and piss and moan that they pass on this guy or that guy. It happens and you move on. We can all feel more comfortable with JZ and Tom, versus past drafts. The second through tenth rounds are more exciting to me. |
| 24. By: DAMellen on 06-04-2011 21:55:06 I'm still hoping for Rendon. Out of curiosity, how would you compare Lindor to Beckham back when he was in high school? |
| 25. By: DAMellen on 06-04-2011 21:55:42 That's Tim Beckham. Not Gordon or David. |
| 26. By: Edman on 06-04-2011 21:59:38 CyFelix, and you know what Rendon will bring? I can guarantee you one thing, there is nothing that assures the Rendon will be a great hitter. There is a lot of speculation built around two previous seasons. Why don't his numbers this season concern you? And, what makes you think said player won't hit 20 HR? Doesn't that depend on which looking glass you're looking through? Blowgun, I'm really not interested in the "buzz" that a player brings with them. Buzz can be a factor that overrates a player's value. If said player is the one they have scouted and the one they believe is the best pick at #2, then that's who they should pick. |
| 27. By: baseballman on 06-04-2011 22:07:23 "He's going to be exactly what we already have in our system. Except we know where he'll be playing." That statement is beyond ridiculous cyfelix, come on now. What makes you say/think that? |
| 28. By: sexymarinersfan on 06-04-2011 22:10:54 Well some of the reasons for his dropped in productivity are do to the change in wood bats. Plus he has no protection in the lineup. He's drawing a ton of walks! Just a few reasons. |
| 29. By: baseballman on 06-04-2011 22:13:13 RE 28: That's a huge concern then, isn't it? If he isn't producing because of the new bats, what makes us think he will produce with a real wood bat against ML pitchers? If Rendon's power outage is attributed to the new bats, then we need to stay away from him. But, I believe it was JAC who said why aren't the new bats causing problems for every player? I don't think it has effected Springer all that much. |
| 30. By: Blowgun7 on 06-04-2011 22:15:24 Jason, how does Lindor compare to Jurickson Profrar? |
| 31. By: CyFelix on 06-04-2011 22:18:06 No I'm not worried. Him having to change his swing due to the shoulder took his power away. Yet he still hit for a good amount of doubles while getting walked a lot. So no, numbers do not concern me at all. Plenty of variables. Not many players with his type don't hit for power. Maybe one and that's Pedroia, and he's topped out at what? 18? In Fenway. I'm going off of Recent history and there's not many players that hit 20 especially up the middle. |
| 32. By: CyFelix on 06-04-2011 22:22:58 #27 SS w/ "power" let's count. Franklin, Littlewood, possibly Peguero and maybe Triunfel. 4. The only difference between him and everyone else is we know where he'll play. |
| 33. By: baseballman on 06-04-2011 22:23:15 "Not many players with his type don't hit for power. Maybe one and that's Pedroia, and he's topped out at what? 18? In Fenway. I'm going off of Recent history and there's not many players that hit 20 especially up the middle." What does this have to do with the player JAC mentioned? There is no way you can think that's a good argument against him. What certain players do in the bigs right now or in the past has literally nothing to do with the guy JAC mentioned, absolutely nothing. No one in the majors is that guy, so to make a baseless judgement based on different players is irresponsible. |
| 34. By: pwhit44 on 06-04-2011 22:25:38 I'd love to have Rendon, but I'm definitely open to the player mentioned. I feel like the people who are opposed to the player mentioned are only down on him because of an assumed lack of big power. But I'm not sure everyone truly appreciates how valuable a high average, elite defender is at that position. It's gold. |
| 35. By: baseballman on 06-04-2011 22:28:49 CyFelix, drafting for need is the quickest way for you to lose your job. There's no need to name the position, JAC wrote this stuff and put it in the subscriber section. Don't give away who the player is by listing the position he plays. |
| 36. By: krob4mvp on 06-04-2011 22:29:26 Rendon's lack of power has very little to do with the bat if at all. I don't know how many of you have used or have even seen the new NCAA approved bat but it's very different....smaller sweet spot, different alloy, completely different feel off the ball. However, a player of Rendon's caliber would adjust to the new bat just like he will with wood. I believe his injury has significantly limited his power and overall average. I still believe he will be a great player once completely healthy; like I said before he or Starling would be my pick at 2. |
| 37. By: CyFelix on 06-04-2011 22:35:03 So is not drafting BPA. He's definitely not BPA. |
| 38. By: baseballman on 06-04-2011 22:37:20 based on what CyFelix? How do you he's not the BPA? How extensively have you scouted him and the other top players? |
| 39. By: Jason A. Churchill on 06-04-2011 22:39:05 What baseballman said. FTR, every comment is about to be deleted again. |
| 40. By: CyFelix on 06-04-2011 22:52:47 How is he BPA? Position? All his amazing (non existent) tools? Everything that you've heard on him is pretty much what I've heard and it doesn't scream "#2 Pick" to me. If we were truly going BPA, Bundy would be the guy. But since we're going with another player, it seems like they are drafting for need. Guess they are on the their way to getting fired. |
| 41. By: Edman on 06-04-2011 22:59:45 So CyFelix, you're willing to accept everything said about Rendon, except the concerns about him this year? Media driven hype isn't always correct either. |
| 42. By: baseballman on 06-04-2011 23:02:27 So everything you've "heard" screams that? Hmm...OK. I'll trust Jack and Tom's EXTENSIVE scouting backgrounds over whatever you think you've heard because you won't tell me how you've come to your conclusions that that player is not the BPA. Those guys know what they are doing, so whatever you've read doesn't really matter. Not trying to be a jerk, but people get these notions in their heads based on things they read that doesn't really mean anything. Jack and Tom and the rest of the scouts are out there watching these players, visiting with them, working them out. If the player JAC mentioned is taking by us, I believe him to be the BPA. |
| 43. By: rjfrik on 06-04-2011 23:05:52 Cy, You do realize that the said player is only 17 right? He skipped a whole grade. So after next year when he is 18 and the same age as every other high school player in the 2012 draft you should compare how he rates as bpa and see if you are still down with the kid. Bottom line is this kid is very special. I can't believe tou think he has non existing tools. This pick in no way is drafting for need, if they were going to draft for need they would be taking your beloved Rendon. This pick screams BPA and the ones doing the scouting of who the BPA in this draft for us have a very very nice track record. You should be ecstatic about this pick if this is the news that's coming out because we now have confirmation that this kid truly is BPA based on jack and macks analysis. That is exciting. |
| 44. By: Edman on 06-04-2011 23:16:26 Both Jack and Tom have made it clear, they will not draft for need. Not this year, not ever. As he points out, you never know what your needs are going to be in two or three years. So, you draft the best player, then worry about where they'll fit. |
| 45. By: Blowgun7 on 06-04-2011 23:23:35 I trust Jack and Mac, but I just don't see how this player is "special".. Based on the majority of scouting reports I've read, his glove and work ethic are the only things special. He has good foot speed, good bat speed, average hit tool, and average to slightly above power (for his position).. Starling screams "special". Player X looks like a good player, but far from projecting as an elite talent. |
| 46. By: Urbannaja on 06-04-2011 23:30:55 Who thinks Starling is going to turn down football? |
| 47. By: CyFelix on 06-04-2011 23:30:55 Well we can agree to disagree. Don't get me wrong (it may sound like it) but I like him..just not in the top 5. If he signs quick and we can use the money on a falling player for signability reasons (Josh Bell, Wedges, Swihart, etc.) then it'd look awesome. I just believe finding everything Rendon has is just perfect. I'm not the biggest fan, but I'll root for him if he is the selection (which I assume we can all agree on that) |
| 48. By: Jay Yencich on 06-04-2011 23:32:03 Yes, mentioning every player except the player that Jason lists seems like a sound idea for keeping this one under wraps. |
| 49. By: Blowgun7 on 06-04-2011 23:38:47 I don't know what Jason expects... we all know that Rendon isn't the player he's talking about since everybody assumes he's Seattle's pick.. That leaves two players, since nobody think the M's are taking a pitcher.. As for Rendon, Keith Law is still saying that folks he's spoken to say the shoulder isn't a long term issue.. I saw earlier that Rendon released the full medicals to all teams.. he says he's been told that he just needs rest and rehab (which he can get plenty of when the college season ends)..Of course he has plenty reason to not tell the truth if the injury is worse than expected.. I still think that if it was a major shoulder injury, he couldn't have made it through an entire college season.. |
| 50. By: KingFelix on 06-04-2011 23:44:45 Put me down for wanting Rendon or Starling. I think either one would have the upside of a MOTO bat. |
| 51. By: pseabrook on 06-04-2011 23:52:54 I'd have to go for Starling myself. I think Rendon's injury problem is very concerning and I think Starling can develop into the no. 3 hitter we need. The guy looks like a Greek God. |
| 52. By: Marco on 06-04-2011 23:59:19 Don't forget Rendon injuries history - IMO it's not just the shoulder one that's concerning people, there's also a possibility he's considered too much injury prone. I suppose there're details we don't know. |
| 53. By: Jon O on 06-04-2011 23:59:19 Jason - if the rumor about the Pirates being locked into Cole at #1 are true, is there any chance that the M's are trying to drive down the price tags of certain players down by floating other names out for #2 right before the draft? |
| 54. By: Jon O on 06-05-2011 00:02:43 Jason - are Keith's contacts about the M's at #2 giving him a similar vibe to what your contacts led you to scoop? |
| 55. By: dawgncarolina on 06-05-2011 00:02:56 53 - doesn't seem like the M's style, and it doesn't feel like it's likely to work either. I doubt that's what's going on. I think the reports are true - Mack is in love with player x. The only question to me at this point is whether Z overrules him. |
| 56. By: baseballman on 06-05-2011 00:13:27 If Mack loves player X and Jack loves player Y, can we really go wrong? Both of these guys know what they're doing. Just a day and a half more... |
| 57. By: dawgncarolina on 06-05-2011 00:28:36 I would have gone with "Jack loves player Z" ;) |
| 58. By: short on 06-05-2011 00:28:46 Starling looks like the best player to me, and he plays a premium defensive position. If I had no worries about how much money I could offer him, I'd pick him. But he looks like a serious risk to bail on us and go play football unless we offer him the moon. I don't think the M's can afford to wait another year for a high draft pick like this. |
| 59. By: DAMellen on 06-05-2011 00:28:57 That's Tim Beckham. Not Gordon or David. |
| 60. By: baseballman on 06-05-2011 00:31:58 Ha, nice one dawg! |
| 61. By: sportsguy on 06-05-2011 00:37:25 Francisco Lindor? Yes please. |
| 62. By: DAMellen on 06-05-2011 00:38:45 Did my comment somehow just pop up again? That's weird. Anyways, I'd still like to know: Francisco Lindor and Tim Beckham, how'd they stack up in high school? |
| 63. By: sportsguy on 06-05-2011 00:47:55 Beckham couldn't carry Lindor's duffel bag, not even close. Not in his league... |
| 64. By: DAMellen on 06-05-2011 01:56:31 That's Tim Beckham. Not Gordon or David. |
| 65. By: dawgncarolina on 06-05-2011 01:56:40 "Beckham couldn't carry Lindor's duffel bag, not even close. Not in his league..." I'm listening. Beckham had some pretty sweet scouting reports coming out of high school. What sets Lindor apart from where he was? As you're clearly very confident about this, please be as specific as possible. |
| 66. By: jharrell3 on 06-05-2011 02:08:37 First time poster but long time reader... 1st: Loving the insider scoop!!! Remind me again... Who broke the Cliff Lee deal?... 2nd: Never thought Rendon would be available at #2 and i wanted him bad... but the front office has earned my trust... 3rd: My assumption is said player (ear muffs) signs cheaper and let's our scouting department play with some extra coin for over slot talent that will slide later... Does drafting "ear muffs" mean the front office has more coin for rest of draft?... supposed best draft ever!?... If so I take (ear muffs) +scouting department's over slot targets, I'm all in! |
| 67. By: dawgncarolina on 06-05-2011 03:01:02 "3rd: My assumption is said player (ear muffs) signs cheaper and let's our scouting department play with some extra coin for over slot talent that will slide later..." This is the one hypothesis that I can really get behind. If they really like Player X over Y or Z or even W I have serious questions. If they think the gap is small enough that saving $3 or $4 mill to apply elsewhere is more valuable, then I'm all for it. |
| 68. By: Marco on 06-05-2011 04:45:59 "3rd: My assumption is said player (ear muffs) signs cheaper and let's our scouting department play with some extra coin for over slot talent that will slide later.." That's another realistic option. The post-tryout meeting JAC is referring to could have been to discuss also that side of the matter - which I do not find secondary at all. |
| 69. By: jharrell3 on 06-05-2011 05:03:47 Assuming "earmuffs" is cheaper... As a fan I anticipate and demand legit over slot talents in rounds 2-4ish ...Just for fun, can we define drafting "BPA" before we debate who is the BPA?... any remote kind of consensus is doubtful... I'll take a shot. (X)ceiling+(Y)floor+(Z)signabilty/cost/50rd fixed budget+(¥)injury risk+(Q)ETA+(W)need+(M)park fit+(D)positional draft depth....="best player available". Calculated only after a stiff cocktail of front office politics... (cough cough Al Davis) and other shenanigans like cool marketable last names and organizational family ties... BPA is just another silly baseball cliche... Without some objective criteria. I imagine a good front office attempts to agree on variable weights even before players are considered. jason, I did read your ESPN insider article on draft strategy for all 30 teams.... Anymore insight on the Ms approach or definition of "BPA"?... |
| 70. By: Galway on 06-05-2011 10:09:51 Great scoop Jason. Either way no one can accuse the M's of taking the easy pick to get the quickest return. All possibilities are genuinely being flushed out and the decision on whoever is the pick will be who they actually do think is best. 30teams and I assume at least 30 BPA definitions |
| 71. By: Jerry on 06-05-2011 10:14:44 I find it tough to chime in on who the M's should take. If Rendon's injury isn't that serious, and he's likely to return to the same level he was at last year with rest and rehab, I think he's the logical pick. If that's not the case, and assuming Cole is off the board, the M's should probably go with one of the three high school guys (Lindor, Starling, or Bundy). But I think this is a situation where we need to trust the M's scouts (and the doctors who will advise them after seeing Rendon's medical info). We just don't have all the information. If this was all about talent, and all the guys were 100% healthy, I think it would be easier for us non-scouts to chime in. But that's not the case. To me, it seems like there are 5 guys with talent and upside to warrant selection: Rendon, Cole, Lindor, Bundy, and Starling. As long as we get one of those guys, and not a reliever, I'd be happy. I'm actually looking forward to the picks in rounds 2-5 just as much. We have an additional pick in round 3, plus early picks in every round. If this draft is as deep as people kep saying, the M's could end up with a lot of talent. We got guys like Walker, Paxton, Littlewood, Jones, and Seager after the first round in recent drafts. Given the depth of this draft, particularly arms, we could end up with 1-3 more guys with talent comparable to Taijuan Walker. That's where McNamara et al will earn their paycheck. I'd love to see a few overslot signings, too, especially if the draft rules might change after this year. It would be awesome to see another addition like Paxton after round 3. Regardless, it should be interesting. |
| 72. By: big_erm on 06-05-2011 12:45:14 JAC, I read pretty much daily, but have never posted. I just read the subscribers only info for Saturday and thought i would post a long overdue thank you. I love this time of year and you consistently bring me the kind of info i love, first. That is why I subscribe. Great work, mang! |
| 73. By: rjfrik on 06-05-2011 12:56:21 For fun lets look back at jack's first round picks in the past ten drafts. Prince Fielder Richie Weeks Mark Rogers Ryan Braun Matt Laporta Jeremy Jeffries Brett Lawrie Dustin Ackley & Nick Franklin No Pick ? I see one bust in there, Mark Rogers, the rest of the guys, heck you could potentially build the best offense in baseball with those guys. This is why if Jack and Mac say that (player who shall not be named) is the best player available you trust them. Very exciting. |
| 74. By: gwangung on 06-05-2011 13:36:20 All I can say....this discussion has been entertaining. |
| 75. By: Edman on 06-05-2011 13:48:25 #69.....as a fan you can anticipate all you want, but not a sole here can demand anything. Best you can do is refuse to do is attend games and buy Mariner gear. I just find it funny when fans think they have a right to demand. The only votes we have as stockholders is to boycott anything Seattle Mariners. As pointed out, they drafted Paxton last year in the third, and I would expect they would do the same this year, if they came across that kind of player again. The M's have not been cheap about spending on players they draft. |
| 76. By: short on 06-05-2011 13:48:54 If you want a good cry, compare that list to the M's first round picks. Then look at where Jack was picking relative to the M's. Hide all sharp objects and have the gas to your home disconnected before doing this. |
| 77. By: slamcactus on 06-05-2011 14:29:38 This is a toughie for me. I like Lindor just fine, but I'd like to see a bit more upside out of a HS guy to feel great about popping him with #2. To me, Starling seems like that guy. I'd rank the big 3 position players Rendon-Starling-Lindor, with a pretty big gap between 2 and 3. So, I'd be slightly disappointed if this was the way we went, mostly because I'm not sure that Lindor is a better prospect than Manny Machado was on draft day last year, and if we're picking #2 in the "best draft in years," it stands to reason we should get a better prospect at #2 this year than the guy who went #3 a year ago. Whoever we pick, obviously I'll hope for the best. There's no guarantees in the draft game, and I have a fair amount of trust in the team's scouts. But if we're going HS, I'd rather us take the CF with 5 plus tools than the SS with the solid all-around game but without any real standout tools. Where there's a low floor (as there is with all HS picks), I want to see a very high ceiling. |
| 78. By: sportsguy on 06-05-2011 15:58:38 Cacti...no one has ever labeled Lindor as someone with a "solid all-around" game except for you. He is a true 5 tool player. Period. Unless you are a big baseball fan of Drew Henson, Chris Weinke, & Joe Borchard than just shut up, sit back and enjoy watching a 12-15 time all star, gold glover, silver slugger, world champion leader unfold before your eyes in Lindor. Enjoy. |
| 79. By: Gustafson on 06-05-2011 16:59:21 I'd take either guy Jason mentions in the Sunday update. Gun to head I'd prefer the 6'5" one. But stoked with either |
| 80. By: baseballman on 06-05-2011 17:13:06 Great update. Tomorrow will be fun, that's for sure. |
| 81. By: marinermutt on 06-05-2011 17:18:20 Way to go Halman. |
| 82. By: StandinPat on 06-05-2011 18:10:55 "Cacti...no one has ever labeled Lindor as someone with a "solid all-around" game except for you. He is a true 5 tool player. Period." So basically you are calling his scouting view unsubstantiated by making your own unsubstantiated claims? If he was a consensus 5 tool SS, wouldn't he inherently be a top pick as well? |
| 83. By: Blowgun7 on 06-05-2011 18:19:38 How does 10-15 HR power qualify you for "5 tool" status? |
| 84. By: baseballman on 06-05-2011 19:23:43 Blowgun how do you know how many homeruns he will hit? Oh yeah, you dont. Oh and pat, the Ms taking him kind of does make him a top pick because, well, we pick #2... |
| 85. By: Blowgun7 on 06-05-2011 19:36:32 You're right baseball man, he's gonna hit 50 homers... I guess we're at the point with Lindor where we're just ignoring the majority of scouting reports filed to date (at least the ones made known to the public) |
| 86. By: CyFelix on 06-05-2011 19:49:13 Too much risk IMO. Upside is f****** crazy, but the risk is worse than Donovan Tate. Not to mention his family seems set on football. And it's the family that can only negotiate Boras can only advise, I've read. |
| 87. By: shemberry on 06-05-2011 20:00:26 I trust Z and Mac. |
| 88. By: CyFelix on 06-05-2011 20:00:31 Jason, I know Griffin, Rick is the teams ATC, but is he the one that checks the medicals on potential picks or do they have like an official team physician who does this? |
| 89. By: baseballman on 06-05-2011 20:12:55 Yeah blowgun because I really insinuated he'd hit 50...wow... And you're right, I hope Jack and Tom are reading the same reports you are and not doing any scouting for themselves. Will you please let them know that you've read up on him and you know he won't be any good? So it'd be great if you could direct those two in the direction of the public reports you've read. Thanks... |
| 90. By: Blowgun7 on 06-05-2011 20:32:00 As I said, trying to say Lindor has power to qualify as a 5 tool player is comical. It's like saying Ackley has 5 tool power. |
| 91. By: Shawnuel on 06-05-2011 20:33:21 #69 Paxton was actually tabbed in the 4th round last year. We picked Stanek in the 3rd and he neglected to sign. |
| 92. By: slamcactus on 06-05-2011 20:57:13 "Cacti...no one has ever labeled Lindor as someone with a "solid all-around" game except for you. He is a true 5 tool player. Period." This is an incorrect statement. If you're a believer, he's got plus hit, speed, defense, and arm tools. If you're a bigtime believer, I guess you could say plus-plus on hit and defense, but I haven't seen any 70 labels thrown around by reputable sources. The present power figures have ranged more in the 30-45 zone, with a possible future 50 or 55. Basically to a believer you're looking at Nick Franklin power with better hit and defense tools. That's a nice prospect. That's not a guy I'd take with the #2 pick in the best draft in years. |
| 93. By: Blowgun7 on 06-05-2011 21:05:59 #92 There apparently are no reputable sources other than Tom McNamara according to a good chunk of folks here... Apparently we shouldn't even debate the #2 pick because if Tom picks Lindor #2 then he's automatically "special and the best position prospect in the draft". Nevertheless, I'm in total agreement with you he's not worth the #2 pick when you have Bubba Starling in this draft, who's upside blow's Lindor's away and has the same risk factors.. |
| 94. By: eastcoastmariner on 06-05-2011 21:08:21 In my opinion, the shoulder injury is what's causing the "problems" for Rendon. I emphasize the word problems only because even with the injured shoulder, Rendon is still the best available hitter in the draft. We sat here towards the end of last summer and started a "Race for Rendon" countdown, while also claiming him to be the next Evan Longoria. Unless the shoulder injury is far worse than anticipated, I see no reason why Rendon should not be the pick provided there's no real significant meaning to this statement made by JAC: "I just think there are a lot of UNANSWERED questions about him and I personally wouldn't take that risk knowing what I know. Like I have said, I don't know everything, but it doesn't sound like clubs know a whole lot more in the positive direction." That statement is rather interesting Jason, as I'm not sure if you're referring to Rendon's performance on the field, or potential character concerns? Hopefully you can elaborate... |
| 95. By: DAMellen on 06-05-2011 21:12:14 What time does the draft start? |
| 96. By: FWBrodie on 06-05-2011 21:30:11 Does anybody have a good Lindor comp? The best I could think of based on scouting reports I've read is Omar Vizquel with his talent tipped a little more to the offensive side than the defensive. |
| 97. By: bhenken08 on 06-05-2011 21:32:18 95 June 6 at 7:00 p.m. ET / 4:00 p.m. PT |
| 98. By: bhenken08 on 06-05-2011 21:35:57 Quick and fast, Lindor is a sparkling defensive shortstop with surprising power at the plate. He's also lithe and wiry, meaning his build, tools and playing style are similar to those of the Mets' Jose Reyes. Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/baseball/more/02/21/perkin.high.schoo.top.10/index.html#ixzz1OSY5zi4g |
| 99. By: frzgg on 06-05-2011 21:36:29 FWBrodie - Manny Machado with less power. I really don't want Lindor at #2, maybe if we were #12 and he was still on the board. I'd prefer... Starling, Bundy, Cole, Rendon, and Bauer to Lindor right now. If hes called at #2, I'm going to feel a little disappointed yet still a M's fan so eternally optimistic. |
| 100. By: dawgncarolina on 06-05-2011 21:52:46 "enjoy watching a 12-15 time all star, gold glover, silver slugger, world champion leader unfold before your eyes in Lindor. Enjoy." Bravo. Funniest post I've seen in years. Holy wow. Might be time for an ignore function. |
| 101. By: sportsguy on 06-05-2011 22:28:00 Silly, Silly M's Fans. 2 years in a row he was voted best player at the World and International Tournaments. Those weren't "scouting reports", they were actual countries, players and coaches who named him that. His peers and opposing coaches, not some guy sitting at his computer in his boxer shorts, eating cheetos and picking his a**. Both times he was playing against guys a year or 2 older. You will embrace him and won't be long until we have our kids lined up for his autograph and picture. If we don't get him it will probably be some other team out West and we'll be stuck watching him kick our butts for the next 20. |
| 102. By: rjfrik on 06-05-2011 23:35:22 You guys do get that Lindor is only 17 and should be a high school junior. Right? He is a far better prospect then Starling, in my opinion. Have you seen video on Starling, he's going to have to totally revamp his swing. Now have you seen Lindor's swing? Gorgeous. I'm with sports guy. This kid is going to hit 25+ bombs a year. His power is for real. I think a lot of you are going to be presently surprised. I couldn't be happier if this is the pick. And for everyone saying I would rather have Starling who plays a premium position. Hello, Lindor plays the most premium position in all of baseball. |
| 103. By: Wes45 on 06-05-2011 23:49:10 #101. We get it already. You don't need to break into Chuck Norris style quips about how great Lindor is. Before you continue to ridicule the thoughts of others perhaps you can answer the following: -If he is so infallible, why is he not considered the de facto #1 choice? Several reputable sources have him ranked well down the list in their rankings. I suspect that all of these sources aren't stupid and biased. They get paid for their acquired knowledge of the sport. -Keith Law. #12 -MLB.com. #9 -Baseball America. #8 - #17 -How often have YOU watched him play? You might just be one of those people whose opinions were formed sitting at your computer and eating Cheetos. -How many years have you held a paying job evaluating talent for an MLB team? I'd be much more inclined to lend creedence to your over the top hyperbole if you've got credentials indicating that your opinion should count. -You do realize that "countries" don't vote for awards in 16U and 18U international tournaments, don't you? Let's see, government officials could concern themselves with monetary policy or how well some 17 year old kid hit the curveball over the weekend. I'm not suggesting that the kid isn't good. However, I'm inclined to put some weight on the opinions of people who have scouted for a living. Perhaps you should too. |
| 104. By: FWBrodie on 06-05-2011 23:50:14 Catcher is the most premium position in baseball, but yeah. How about this one: faster, more athletic Orlando Hudson at SS? |
| 105. By: nighthawk180 on 06-06-2011 00:51:51 Come on now guys, Everyone needs to chill on the Lindor, Starling, Rendon thing. I mean does anyone here really know anything about Rendon's shoulder problems? Has anyone been on hand for Lindor's workouts for his potential drafting teams? Does anyone REALLY KNOW IF Starling will sign a baseball contract? Isnt he supposed to go to school to play football and baseball? Their are never guarantees in baseball but really what's the big deal. Starling is oozing potential, Rendon has had success in the past, Lindor plays real good SS with a plus hitting tool across the board. I'd be stoked to get anyone one of those three. Lindor to me is over starling. But just a little bit. His ceiling might not be as high as Starling but from what I have heard and read Starling has his risks too. Sometimes guys with the biggest ceilings fail too. Thats my opinion of course and its fine if you disagree I dont care. One other thing about other teams draft boards on Lindor. How does anyone here know who they have Lindor at? I mean do you really think that other teams had Josh Fields at the top of their daft boards before we picked him? Players tools are only one part of the whole drafting scale. Each team has there own ways to evaluate talent. ETA, signability, attitude, drive to succeed to name a few are others that need to be taken into account. I by no means think I have a better idea than anyone else here let alone the mariners front office so to get mad or irritated at something we dont even have a clue about yet is just stupid in my opinion. We should be excited that the mariners have the chance to make some great picks and not always having something negitive to say all the time. I try to look at things with the glass half full. Just my $.02 Nighthawk180 |
| 106. By: Edman on 06-06-2011 01:02:24 Nobody knows where other teams rank any players in the draft. They guard that information very tightly. So the idea that anyone knows how teams rank any prospect is inaccurate. |
| 107. By: baseballman on 06-06-2011 01:16:55 To blowgun and the other posters on here who obviously doubt Jack and Tom's ability to adequately evaluate talent, I have a question for you. How extensively have you scouted the player(s) that JAC mentioned? How extensively have you scouted the players you believe to "better" than the one that JAC mentioned? It's a question that deserves to be answered. You all keep proclaiming the monstrous mistake it would be to take that player, so I would like to know why. You can read all the scouting reports you want, but at the end of the day all you do is regurgitate someone else's opinion...unless you actually are extensively scouting ALL the top players in this draft. If you are, then I'm sure most here would love to read your scouting reports... Me personally, I don't know enough about any players to make such a proclamation that player X is a mistake. I've seen only a handful of games of Rendon/Cole and only videos of Lindor/Starling/Bundy and I've read scouting reports of all of them. But at the end of the day, that's nothing compared to what Jack and Tom are doing/have done in regards to scouting. |
| 108. By: Edman on 06-06-2011 01:36:25 I'll stick with Jack and Tom. They have a good history of drafting players. And, whomever they choose, you can bet they have gone much more in depth than anyone here. Most here only know what they read. Quoting Law, BA, or any other media based opinions doesn't really mean much. They tend to wrapped up in media hype just like most here. I can tell you that anyone who claims to know how a player is going to turn out as a major leaguer, is fooling themselves. There are players that have a smaller degree of potential failure. I'm happy with any of the names mentioned. And arguing over which is going to be the "best" choice rather silly, since they are talent-wise not separated by much. And certainly not enough to get all huffy about. |
| 109. By: Corey on 06-06-2011 01:43:03 None of us should have absolutely any doubt about the fact that Jack did his homework and will take the player the M's feel the best about, and we should be excited about that player. These guys have proven they know what they're doing and there's little reason to doubt them. Jack is a baseball junkie. He factors in every little detail and more times than not makes the right decision. I honestly feel he will take the right players at #2 tomorrow. |
| 110. By: Edman on 06-06-2011 02:21:21 Hey Blowgun.....exactly which pro scouts have "leaked" their reports on Lindor? It might be that anything leaked, would have to be done in an effort to potentially bring into doubt Lindor's skills by a team hoping that he falls in the draft. BA, Law, et al do not count as scouts. I would think that no team is going to leak information. And, if a scout does leak a team's position on the draft, that they'd risk losing their job. Teams hold their draft intel close to the vest. Leaks aren't tolerated. |
| 111. By: outfieldgrass on 06-06-2011 02:49:57 I am more concerned with the following picks. I know that somebody will be unhappy when the first round is over but I feel no matter what we are going to get a special player. Anyway, what are your thoughts on Bichette and would he be available with our second pick? I have heard he could be a possible 1st round pick. Think it will happen? |
| 112. By: bcsimons on 06-06-2011 07:40:58 outfieldgrass, I am not a hug fan of Bichette, but by no means do I dislike him, but a guy I like a lot at 62 is Connor Barron, SS, from Mississippi. He is a strong LH hitter, who seems to have a chance to hit for more power then most shortstops and is a very good runner. PG gave him an 80. |
| 113. By: docsmith on 06-06-2011 09:15:32 Regarding the BPA debate about 50 posts ago, sometimes it is easier to define something by what it isn't, rather than what it is.....exactly who best player available is will be debatable, but in this draft is probably one of Rendon, Cole, Starling, Lindor, or Bundy.....but...and I am sorry to bring up bad memories, but clearly, who the best player available wasn't in 2005 was Jeff Clement. The Ms drafted a fantasy of a power hitting catcher rather than going for one of the players that were clearly among the best available. As long as we are picking from the pool of players that are considered the best available, then, given how inexact of a science projecting 17-21 yr olds is, I am happy. It sounds like all 5 of the guys listed above has a very good chance of developing into a very good player/all-star. Awesome. Give me as many of those as you can. |
| 114. By: outfieldgrass on 06-06-2011 11:54:08 bssimons: I saw Barron on the one of the mock drafts and liked what I saw. Would not be upset with that pick. Unless one of the first round pitchers fall I hope we try to beef up our infield depth for a couple rounds. |
| 115. By: lewis on 06-06-2011 11:57:47 Well said Doc! |
| 116. By: StandinPat on 06-06-2011 12:38:02 "Oh and pat, the Ms taking him kind of does make him a top pick because, well, we pick #2..." How does one team taking him make him a consensus top pick? So by that logic, just because the M's drafted Baron in the 1st round that automatically makes him a consensus 1st round talent? Some, Law and others, don't even have him in the top ten. I have a hard time believing that a consensus "5 Tool" SS wouldn't be the hands down #1 pick in pretty much every draft, yet ranges for Lindor are top 5 to top 10-15. |
| 117. By: rjfrik on 06-06-2011 12:53:47 Just to clarify Pat, Baron was a supplemental round pick, not a first round pick. |
| 118. By: baseballman on 06-06-2011 12:58:53 What does "consensus" even mean? Really though, what does it matter if someone from BA or ESPN likes our pick or not? It doesn't matter at all. So if you want to judge our picks on what writers say about it, well that's your prerogative I guess. I seem to remember quite a few people upset at us drafting Nick Franklin calling him a reach...how's he working out so far? And what about Walker last year? People were freaking out when his name got called, I think he's pitching alright. Jack and Tom get paid big bucks for a reason. They are good at their jobs. |
| 119. By: Timberwolf on 06-06-2011 14:52:10 Hopefully, this will be the last top 5 pick we get for a long while. When you have the second overall pick in the draft, you are hoping to get a guy who makes a lot of all star games. Jack's record here and in Milwaukee speaks for itself. I'm good with whoever Jack picks. Since he doesn't have a long term deal, passing on the college guy for a HS player would show a lot of guts. I just hope whoever they pick really loves to play baseball. |
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