Four years ago Jose Lopez was a fringe blue-chip prospect with tremendous upside. There wasn’t anything he couldn’t do, including swipe a bag, hit the home run and glove the toughest of positions on the diamond.
As a teenager, the Venezuelan native was torching the Cal League and hitting big home runs in the playoffs in Double-A. He slugged over .500 as a 20-year-old in his first taste of Triple-A baseball and showed promise in his first few shots at the show.
What happened?
Lopez has not progressed much, if any at all. He’s better defensively, after switching from shortstop to second base in 2004, but in the batter’s box the opposing pitchers can simply scan over the scouting reports from his rookie year and if they execute, Lopez will get himself out.
“He’s still not very selective at the plate,” said a former American League West scout who now investigates the game for a Midwest club. “It’s as if he’s looking for the first pitch he can get his bat on and going for it, whether it’s a pitch he can handle or not. But maybe that’s part of the problem - does he know what he can hit and what he can’t?”
Lopez and double-play partner Yuniesky Betancourt are both guilty of this, it appears, though the Cuban glove man undoubtedly covers the plate better despite being completely incapable of hitting the ball hard the other way.
Lopez has done that - go with the pitch and make good, hard contact to right and right-center field - but he hasn’t been doing much of anything positive at the plate since June, and hasn’t shown any ability to hit for power since May.
“He did indeed do that last season, too,” said the scout. “Two home runs after June 2nd. Somebody figured him out and he hasn’t adjusted. I saw them (Mariners) in Chicago and Minnesota on separate trips and Lopez proved in both series why they wanted Mark Loretta at the deadline.
“You can get him to reach for pitches; early in the count especially. A lot of young hitters are like that as they are trying to avoid getting into a pitcher’s count. 0-2, 1-2; that’s not where hitters want to be.
“Lopez does not have control of his strike zone, and good pitchers and good scouting will smell that out and take advantage of it.”
The 23-year-old hit .207 in July with two extra-base hits in 92 at-bats. He drew all of one walk, drove in just five runs and grounded into more double plays than even Jose Vidro.
Here’s a more detailed breakdown of Lopez’s shortcomings with the bat -
Plate coverage -
Lopez lights up anything middle-in, but has problems keeping it fair. He’s hitting .252 on pitches in the lower third of the zone and when he gets tied up above the waist he’s hitting just .129. His slugging percentage on pitches in the middle of the zone and between the knees and the waist is .477 while hovering in the .285 range on everything else.
So if you’re facing Lopez, why throw him anything that catches a good portion of the plate unless it’s down at his ankles or off the plate away?
Pitch Selection -
This problem goes in two directions. Not only does Lopez chase pitches out of the strike zone, but his approach is as if it’s a 2-strike count as soon as he digs in. Watch him “protect” the plate on a 2-0 pitch.
He has to learn to swing at strikes, and to swing at pitches he can do something with, which brings us to…
Lopez’s Zone -
Lopez’s hot zones are limited to right down the middle and thigh high, and three-to-six inches above that. He’s slugging under .300 on pitches that don’t land right down Royal Brougham.
If anything you’d think he’d learn to be patient and get a pitch he can kill.
———
Lopez’s swing isn’t as sound at this point as the Mariners would certainly like to see - he’s had three years to get better, and hasn’t. To be fair, the loss of his brother is a more than acceptable reason for his swoon this summer, but that doesn’t really fly since ‘07 is pretty much a carbon copy of last season.
First Half:
2006 - .280/.316/.454, 9 HR, 36 XBH
2007 - .284/.321/.415, 8 HR, 21 XBH
Second Half:
2006 - .285/.322/.336, 1 HR, 10 XBH
2007 - .221/.235/.262, 0 HR, 5 XBH
While I’m not suggesting in any manner that the M’s need to pull the plug on Jose as their starting second baseman, he’s just 23 after all, but I am strongly suggesting that whoever the new hitting coach is should be picked with Lopez in mind.
He’s a .280/.320/.460 hitter who is under performing to the umpteenth power and unless the club can dig up the goods, they’ll be paying one of the more disappointing regulars in the American League for the next four seasons.
But what can any coach do for Lopez? He’s too stiff at the plate, which is partially the reason why he can’t reach the outer half to drive the ball, and it really seems as if he’s lost confidence in his bat speed, which is not gone, but his shortened swing and closed, spread stance is probably in his best interest anymore.
“I’ve seen an inch give a guy a mile,” said the scout. “One little adjustment can do wonders to how a hitter sees the ball, and can effect his balance at the point of contact. It’s definitely time for them to start experimenting with this kid.”
Who was abetter propect when they where in the Cal league Lorez are Trueinfel? Just food for thought i think Lopez might have been more highly regarded.Thats why they are called prospects and sometimes they become suspects!
I\’ve seen Lopez open his stance from his usual closed stance. He also has positioned himself deeper in the box and slightly off the plate.
Adjustments have been made.
In my opinion, look at his feet. He\’s been off balance with Pentland\’s new stance. And there\’s been no improvement in Lopez driving the ball to opposite field, he\’s still punching/slapping it in right.
That picture is very fitting… I dont know if Lopez has the mental makeup to ever reach his potential
Adjustments have been made?
No, they have been tried. Big difference. Huge.
To be fair, Lopez had a lot more pro experience and was a year older than Triunfel at the same level.
But yeah, Lopez was the talk of the system as far as hitters were concerned. Like cujo said, just prospects, but Triunfel has a bigger upside in the power department.
Seeing as how Triunfel is currently playing SS, and there is really not much need for him there. And now seeing Lopez struggle(even though he is still very young and does have an All Star appearance), do you see Carlos moving to 3B or 2B? Or is it way too early for that. I know that a lot would need to go into account, like Lopez’s age and Beltre’s contract, will they re-sign him or not. But it’s exciting talkin about the M’s prospects being to so good and having so much potential.
It’s too early for a position switch, but Triunfel’s future is probably at third, possibly in the outfield.
It will depend heavily, but not solely, on how he develops physically over the next few years.
I don’t see any scenario that he ends up at second, though.
what’s been happening with lopez he is doin so bad
I seem to remember Lopez being able to hit the high fastball with the best of them when he was first called up. Seemed to have extremely quick hands. Doesn’t look like the same guy anymore. Wonder why he changed his feet so much from his rookie year? He went from extreme closed to very open.
He’s been back and forth for two and a half years, searching for a way to cover the plate and sustain leverage.
Hasn’t worked. It’s a major problem, too, and the Mariners aren’t all that happy about having inked him to a 4-year deal.
Nobody to blame but themselves for the 4 year deal.I thought they got a bargain at the time and im sure they did too.Thats the one thing John Hart of clevland and then texas was good at picking the right young guys to give multi year deals to he saved both clubs alot of money and didnt miss much on guys from perfomance to work habits and makeup thats where alot of clubs miss if they dont have guys in there front office who understand that money means danger with some guys!
Right on the mark regarding Lopez. If fact, almost the entire team has terrible plate discipline, little ability to control the plate and move runners over, take walks, etc. It’s why Vidro, despite his other flaws (no power, no speed) is so invaluable to this club. He is the best situational hitter on the team by controlling the strike zone.
This team has been playing over its head, and will not make the playoffs. They have weak and inconsistent starting pitching, their bullpen is too young for a pennant race and is likely to falter due to youth, as a team they lack plate discipline and do not move runners without hits (no walks, few sacrifices, few can hit to the right side and make a “good” out), and therefore they don’t “add on” to leads easily. I predict they’ll be ten games out by season’s end.
I’m looking at the money in the 4 yr deal and I just don’t see how it becomes a problem if Lopez continues to suck. It’s about $4.5 from 08-10. That’s not the kind of money the FO get’s shell shocked over - not to mention the bulk of it at a time when Raul and Sexson are off the books.
It’s hard to see him struggle, because there was a time in Tacoma he looked like a star.
The team doesnt have terrible plate discipline, especially compared to Lopez.. Do they swing at a lot of pitches, yes… but that doesnt mean they have bad approaches or discipline.. Most the hitters in our lineup have a plan, and look to handle pitches they are comfortable with..
Dont confuse swinging early in the count, as a bad approach… Guys like Guillen, Ichiro, Ibanez, JOhjima know what they can hit, and know what pitches they like, and when they get them they swing at them..
Lopez on the other hand doesnt have a clue what he’s doing up there or what he should and should not be hacking at
“This team has been playing over its head, and will not make the playoffs. They have weak and inconsistent starting pitching, their bullpen is too young for a pennant race and is likely to falter due to youth, as a team they lack plate discipline and do not move runners without hits (no walks, few sacrifices, few can hit to the right side and make a “good” out), and therefore they don’t “add on” to leads easily. I predict they’ll be ten games out by season’s end.”
While I agree with your first sentence, I disagree with about everything else you’re saying in this paragraph. The bullpen is the strength of this team and will continue to be. Your piont about plate discipline is a solid one, but this team tries TOO much making “good outs” not too little. It’s been shown time and again that “productive outs” aren’t.
Most of all, I totally disagree with your final statement. I think this team is flawed and will miss the playoffs, but I don’t see any scenario where they’re 10 games out at the end of the year. They’re not going to fall off a cliff, just come up a little short.
One thing thats overlook here is there is a old saying in baseball and it goes YOU CANT WALK OFF THE ISLAND! Thats why alot of the latins are free swingers they are taught at young ages to swing the bat.The asain players are the same they dont come to walk they come to hit.No thats not racial profiling thats the facts.We have 2 asains, 6 latins of are 9 starting hitters if Bavasi as long as he has been around the game doesnt know this then there is something wrong with him.I know and im just a casual fan.
Lopez is Beltre except in the first half.
Not to mention only Vidro has plate disipline and Ichiro is Ichiro.
Even of they get swept, somehow the Mariners are probably going to make it interesting in the west. Every time they went on a losing streak, they bounced back with a winning streak just as long or some sort of nine-of-11 type run.
The problem now is, the M’s have to take three of four in LA and/or get help elsewhere.
eknpdx -
No, the MONEY isn’t the root of the contractual issue… here, let me clear it up.
1. Jose has one less thing motivating him now. he got his contract. Money motivates, and for those who don’t believe it, well, you aren’t smart.
2. The Mariners aren’t FINANCIALLY obligated to do anything but pay Lopez what they signed him to. But they do and will feel that obligation to START him regularly so he can prove he was worthy of the extension.
We KNOW that’s how this team works and with a 23-year-old who can defend some, they’ll be riding this one out for the most part. It’s not a good situation to be in.
Oh, and Richie and Raul being off the books after ‘08 has ZERO bearing. Literally, ZERO. Because the club has ALREADY planned to spend that money somewhere. They didn’t lot any of it to Lopez’s extension.
So given Lopez’s struggles at the plate, isn’t the Cabrera trade to CLE looking even worse now?
Your last statement is the most frightening, since it indicates the team has already decided how to spend another $18m it doesn’t have to.
What I find odd is that the FO who basically swallowed $10m+ in contracts over the likes of Cirillo, Boone, Crawford, Spiezio, and such would not drop Lopez after several years of limited progress.
Are you really saying that he’ll be given more than next year to show something before getting DFA’d if needed?
No, Allen. Because Cabrera isn’t ready to do anything, either. It’s not any worse today than a year ago.
ek…
Either way, man, they were never going to think of those two contracts coming off the book in relation to Lopez’s contract in any manner - EVER.
And yeah, Lopez isn’t getting DFA’d by the Mariners whether he hits .260 with no power again or not.
If they can find a somewhat cheap replacement, they might MOVE him, but gathering up a cheap 2B who doesn’t have defensive issues is not easy to do.
And I do think all he needs to do is show marginal improvements and he keeps his job going into 2009. That doesn’t mean the team will start him 150 times in ‘08, but there’s no way he gets DFA’d. No need.
You don’t cut ties with young players in that fashion, anyways. It’s absurd.
My whole point is that NOW, after signing to guaranteed millions, he’s going to get every last chance to get the job done before they pull the plug… and the last chance may not be for two years.
It’d be different if they had a big-league ready second baseman in Tacoma. But they don’t.
i think the mariners arent gonna stay in the races because they are playin like crap they cant hit or anything
LMAO! Somewhere in all of this Morse must be pissed as hell. . .
Are we reading too much into the bunting hell Grover put Lopez through?
Really, Steven? Really?
They can’t hit… OR ANYTHING?
these last 3 games have been horrible they lost a big lead yesterday and today there doin worse
Where did Jason state that the M’s have already PLANNED how to spend the money? He never said that. He said, they planned on spending on two guy named Raul and Richie. How is that frightening?
I think some of you try to hard to be disappointed.
Talking about young players and this ball club. What do you think of the rumors about the M’s giving Guillen a contract extension for 3 years? Guess that means no Balentien. I don’t understand why they just wouldn’t go with Jones, Ichiro, and Balentien for next years outfeild. And spend the money they are going to give Guillen on SP, which is the real problem. That outfeild would also be so much better defensively. Sure you might drop off in the hitting aspect, but with the defense and the SP, you would be better in the long run. The team started rookies at SS and 2B last year, but they refuse to do the same in the outfeild?? These two guys are better than Betencourt and Lopez were. Is it a move purely based on the FO tryin to keep their jobs, and not go with the growing pains of a “youth” movement. Even though its not that.
Also you get rid of sexson, and play either Ibanez or Vidro at first, and this is a better team, isn’t it?
Because, putting both them in the outfield as rookies in the same year, is asking for failure. The Mariners cannot afford to take steps backwards, just to give Balentien playing time.
Two rookies in key offensive positions is asking for trouble. Balentien needs more time at AAA, just as Jones did this year. Sexson and Ibanez, as Jason illuded to, will not be back at the end of their contracts. So, there is flexability to move some bats around.
Personally, I want to see Balentien put those numbers up again, at Tacoma, before I clear a spot for him. He doesn’t have the minor league history that Jones does, showing that he can adapt to each level quickly.
Think Justin Leone. Guys have career years. And, if Balentien is having one, you end up cutting off your nose to spite your face.
Besides, Wlad still has options left, so there is no NEED to hurry him to the majors next season.
Cabrera playing well in Clevland doesnt make the deal any more horrible today then the day that it happened.We got fleeced in the deal and Jason and everyone else said it at the time.Whoever is making are major league free agent suggestions and are giving Bavasi the name for trades proably needs to go because the big free agent signs and what we have gotten in return on trades is very very questionable!
Jason -
What is your opinion on the proposed Guillen extension?
Also, any chance the club keeps Beltre around?
And finally, how do you feel Clement is coming along? Do you think he will be the backup to Kenji in ‘08 or…?
I hate the idea on the surface, ASUBoyd, but just for the timing of it.
From my perspective, I wait until I am pretty darned sure I can’t get better than Guillen in the winter before I extend his contract.
On the other hand, the club is probably pretty sure they’ll be able to get rid of Richie Sexson, which eliminates a righty bat and opens a spot for Adam Jones to start in left with Raul and Vidro sharing 1B and/or DH duties.
And Bavasi really needs to continue to focus on the rotation and most of the club’s resources are likely to go in that direction.
In the end, I think the M’s are making sure they have a productive bat to count on in 2008 and don’t want to have to pay 100 million for it.
I hear the deal will guarantee Guillen more than $10 million in 2008, $9m in ‘09 and $8m in 2010, with incentives that could give him an average that exceeds $10 mil per season on average.
Re: Clement
I’ll have a long post on Clement right after he doesn’t get called up in September.
Meanwhile, the 21 year old switch hitting second baseman for Cleveland, Asdrubal Cabrera hit his second home run (a 2 run shot) today and is 2 for 3 so far in today’s game.
He now has 2 more home runs than Lopez since being brought up late in the second half of the season.
.321 | HR 2 | RBI 10 |
Great trade Bavasi!
Let’s not do this. Because if you are going to shred Bill for that, or anything else, you should be praising him for the Vidro trade (Fruto sucks, Snelling hurt AGAIN and out for year) and the Guillen signing.
Let’s not go down this road.
I think a Guillen extension would be a good thing. He has obviously hit well and the team has been saying lately that he has been a leader. Thats pretty valuable and probably one of the things the team needed.
Why won’t Clement get a september call up?
I question the praise for Vidro right now it looks good but look at the 3 years you pay a combined 22-25 million for singles and no defense and no speed .Guillen he hit a HR with but dude there is alot of bad ones also.But i do agree with you lets just see where this road trip leaves us!???
So has the club soured on Clement or is there some other reason he wouldn’t be called up? I read somewhere that at least one catcher would come up, and with Rivera being on the 40 man….oh man….say it ain’t so.
On a completely off topic note:
Is Liddi injured? Can’t remember seeing him in the boxscores lately.
Also, Ricky Orta only lasted 2/3 of an inning while striking out two today. Injury or discomfort of some sort?
Snelling is NEVER going to play. Fruto is never going to pitch.
If you rip the Cabrera move, you HAVE to praise the Vidro move.
no,JP, but why waste an option on him if you don’t have to? Because he’s not going to make the club out of ST next spring… so he’d have option year 1 gone if you place him on the 40-man now.
It’s not the worst thing in the world, but if he isn’t going to get any ABs, isn’t going to catch… which he won’t with the club contending, what’s the point?
Liddi went off to play with Team Italy.
I don’t know what happened with Orta. I would assume injury.
Jason,
Is Fabian Williamson a legit prospect? His stats over the past 9 games in the AZ rookie league seem pretty good for a 18-19 year old: 48.2 IP, 43 H, 57 K, 17 BB, 15 ER. I didn’t even realize we signed him - I thought he was college-bound.
I wasnt ripping the cabrera move i was just stating the money that vidro will be owed for singles and extending innings as people say.Is 22-24 million worth that?The other thing the Vidro move does is make less room for Jones to get a chance to play.Because of vetran presence and managers who dont have the balls to put him in the lineup and leave him in the lineup.Raul should be dhing but cant so he playd LF and Guiellen and Itch arent coming out so Jones will be screwed again next year and i really think that is the truth.And by the way guillens move doesnt even take away half the money that was spent on Spiezio and he was one of the cheaper mistakes.
Are you saying that signing Guillen was a mistake? He’s actually hitting the ball. The same could never be said about Spiezio.
.
Vidro is the best 2 hitter in the league, and the best we’ve had in a long time. So what, he doesn’t hit for power, we new that when we traded for him. We traded for a guy who would extend the inning, and move Ichiro, and that is exactly what Vidro is doing. In fact, he is doin even better than we thought he do. You knew what you were goin to get with Vidro, and he has been extremely solid for this team.
The best 2 hitter in the league?
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Jason, good stuff on Tillman. Butler has taken a nice step forward of late as well, with 38 K’s and only 14 walks in 45 innings since returning from the injury. Do you think Butler starts next year in High Desert and Tillman in West Tennessee?
I’ll second that. Good stuff, Jason.
I read an article saying that the opposing manager in that game where Tillman got 13 K’s said that the umpire’s strike zone was too big, so that put a bit of a damper on it for me but the long string of success is phenominal and I am as excited for Tillman as anyone.
If Aumont starts pitching like this, then I am super excited!
#44 i guess 22-24 million for a guy to do that over 3 years is my problem that is alot of money for what he brings to the table isnt it?No im not saying Guiellen was a mistake but im saying he is one of the only free agents that we have signed under Bavasi that has lived up to the money they where paid via free agency.Im saying we have spent alot under Bavasi and havent done real well with what we have brought in.Does that make more sense to you?
Uhh, Slack, that happens to teams that just got 2-hit and whiffed 13 times.
Even if it was a 5-hit, 9K effort, that’s HUGE at that level, in that league, in that ballpark at age 19.
What the Rancho skipper says about the strike zone should have less than ZERO effect in the performance for you.
Tillman is winning with stuff and improved command. Not Eric Gregg-sized strike zones.
Dawg,
Yeah, I do, on both. It’s not out of the realm of possibility that a healthy Butler skips the Cal League, too.
When his arm is sound he has every bit the stuff that Tillman has, just with slightly less control at this point.
It is very exciting to have 3 possible front of the rotation type arms in the system, (not to mention talents like triunfel, mario martinez, and juan ramirez) and all under 20 yrs of age. Makes me thrilled about the future.
What gets me excited about the state of the farm system is… well, two things.
1. Felix is 21. Jones is 22. Clement, near ML-ready, is 23. Morrow 22. Wlad 23. Add those guys to the list of Triunfel, Tillman, Butler, Aumont, Ramirez, etc.
2. The Mariners aren’t stopping there. They are very much in on Salcedo and Dejesus is no slouch. While I would have gone in different directions in the past two drafts (Maybin over Clement, Lincecum/Miller over Morrow), what they have done in combination with the IFAs is pretty damned good.
The Mariners farm system isn’t grade A right now, because most of the top talent is in A ball carrying more risk, but they get an A for the way they are doing things, with the exception of their uber-aggressive promotions.
But it’s working, so…
“Working” at best, “not hurting us the way we thought it would” at least.
Jason, you’ve given a snapshot or quick summary here and there about the player development and scouting departments. I’d really be interested in a more in-depth look. Some thoughts to tackle:
1. A historical review of philosophical shifts in player development and scouting tendencies reflected by the FO through ownership and GM changers.
2. The type of financial investment this team makes to such activities - maybe compared to other teams.
3. How these other scouts for other teams you often talk to see the organization changes, similarities, etc.
Can you get back on this in about, oh say, 2 hours?
;-)
I dunno, ek, I think with Tillman it actually worked. I still don’t like the risk, but hey…
1. That’s an offseason thing. Remind in six weeks.
2. Seattle spends money in everything. Sometimes they still would rather not go the extra mile for unproven talent, but they put in the work and the greenbacks.
3. I can tell you that most of the scouts I talk to to from other clubs think the M’s are nuts, usually.
A few don’t like the way Bill put together the rest of the front office, i.e., John Boles, Dan Evans, and how they treated the likes of Jongewaard and Looper.
A Nats scout I started talking to this season HATES the way the Mariners went about putting together their 25-man roster - including the Morrow thing - but really believes in aggressive promoting with the kids. He thinks you just have to know which guys can bounce back and which ones can’t, and occasionally you have to find out if a kid is a real prospect or not and the only way to find that out is to see if he can handle the upper levels.
Did I miss anything?
That wasn’t two hours . . .
“I can tell you that most of the scouts I talk to to from other clubs think the M’s are nuts, usually.”
Almost fell off chair.
Thanks bro!
# 42 — If you were TRULY a baseballman you would know that Derek Jeter is the best #2 hitter in baseball.
I think Vaughn meant No. 44.
40: You can rip the Cabrera trade without praising the Vidro trade. We gave up Cabrera knowing we were trading 6 years of bargain service from a kid with a great glove and an a solid bat for no more than 100 ABs against lefties. I wouldn’t say we got fleeced (and Cujo’s assertion that “everyone said we got fleeced when the trade happened” isn’t really true), but it’s really easy to criticize that one retrospectively, based on what Bavasi should have known at the time. That Cabrera made such a big offensive jump so soon after the trade just stings.
The Vidro deal is still crappy even using shortsighted results-based analysis. Vidro’s basically hitting his 90th percentile projections right now, making him a slightly below league average DH. We’ve got 2 more years of that, and it’s only getting older, fatter, and slower. Meanwhile, we’ve locked up the one position where it’s easy to find a huge bat.
But to be fair, who could’ve possibly been around to suggest the Ms go after, say, Carlos Pena instead of proven mediocrity?
Oh wait…
I meant one of, but everybody jumped on it. Vidro is one of the best 2 hitters in baseball. That cannot be argued.
Don’t avoid talking about how USELESS Fruto and Snelling were all season… don’t do that, because it doesn’t support the argument you are presenting.
My point is, if you want to rip the Vidro trade, using the premise that the futures of Snelling and Fruto were worth more than Vidro, than you have to take year one and admit the Mariners made out.
Is Vidro a good DH? No. Can he hit? Some, and he’s helped the club this year more than Snelling and Fruto would have combined.
The money doesn’t matter in the least. Thing is, we didn’t need to SEE Vidro hit to believe it wasn’t a good idea.
Just like we didn’t need to see Perez perform last August-September to know Cabrera was more valuable than that.
That’s the whole point.
Thats one way to look at it.Therer is also another way to look at it we had a pretty good hitter named BiG Been on are club who could have been are DH and then we could have spent the money on some starting pitching that we really need know and really needed this winter.Snelleng and Fruto havent done a thing this year i still think Fruto will be a decnt middle reliever if that kouk bowden doesnt keep starting the poor guy.Snelling we all hope and wish the guy could stay healthy but i think the sad fact is that Snelling is made of glass.So yes the money does matter for me and yes as im saying this Adam Jones goes deep just think if he got those 450 at bats vidro has 275 20 hr 70 rbi would be my guess what do you think Jason?
Re 50:
Do you think it would be too much if Butler skipped the Cal League and went straight to AA?
Hey Jason,
I know its a little off topic, but was there any truth to those Sexson for Penny rumors before the start of the season? I know its easy in hindsight, but how much better would this team be without HoRam every 5 days. And losing Sexson would not be a huge loss for the offense.
What starting pitching was there to buy? You mean, they could have bumped up their offers to Zito and Schmidt? Now, that would have been a waste of money. Both the Dodgers and the Giants saved Seattle from themselves.
I always love the “we could have spent more money” argument…..when it’s simply a statement without back-up.
WHO could they have spent that money on, instead of Vidro? They could just as easily spent it on someone else……and still gotten poor results. Spending money and getting value back are not hand-in-hand.
And please. Before we proclaim that Broussard would have been better, lets consider that some players lose their effectivity, the more they play. They get scouted heavier. If you’re going to use that logic, then Bloomquist ahould be starting over Lopez.
It’s too bad Vidro can’t field at second anymore, we’d have a solution.
Adam Jones was not ready for the majors, at the start of the season. And, he may not be quite ready now. His future starts next year.
Vidro has been good at the role he was asked to do. No, he’s not a traditional DH. But, the myth of what kind of hitter a DH has to be, is pathetic. Chicks may dig the longball, but it’s not a recipe for winning.
Stop looking at what a DH does, and start looking at what other hitters in the #2 hole are doing. The extra power they’ve gotten out of Johjima and Betencourt (compared to traditional numbers out of those positions) make up for any loss of power from Vidro. Jose puts pressure on pitchers and gives an opportunity to get Ichiro to third, even if by a single. Or, is patient enough to allow Ichiro to steal. IMHO, it’s better to give Ichiro more opportunities to score, than worry about Vidro’s RBI’s or homeruns.
Balance wins consistantly.
Edtrak you should right a book and buy every copy becuase there isnt a sole on this site that buys into the crap the spews out of your keyboard everytime you touch it.I guess Lilly and Marquis havent been good for the cubs?I think they where avaiable wernt they.Yes some players do struggle with over exposure im not so sure Ben would non of us no this until that oppurtunity arives.The myth of a DH hell if they vant play the field there job is to provide alot of offense and to be honest vidro does not produce alot of offense.He provides a good batter that hits alot of singles that cant run and those are the facts.I like the job vidro has done this year i think he has played better then any of us would have thought but those are the facts!
Bettencourt 8 hr Johjhima 24 hr those are extra good numbers?They have both done nice jobs but extra is a stretch even for you ed!
Re: Edtrak/Cujo
Sorry, Cujo but you are wrong.
I agree with all of those bullet points up there Ed, well said.
Cujo, this is an awesome site, but I don’t have a clue what you’re saying. It would help if you would please clean up your copy before hitting the send button. Thanks.
You are correct i will work on it .
And it’s official.
John McLaren is the worst manager in baseball. It’s not even really close, to be honest…
The Mariners are a good baseball team.
The McLareners are the worst team in the division.
Is it a lock that McLaren is back as the manager next season? I really disliked Hargrove but Mac is making him look like a saint right now by tossing Parrish/White out there in every late inning pressure situation.
Hey i dont think Mac has made alot of good moves but when you are at the end of a game in todays world you dont put your closer in??? How many times in the 70s and 80s did you see the closer in a tie game?All the time is the answer because they are usally the best guy in the pen.Im not a manager but if i needed a game to stay tied for the wildcard i damn sure am gonna have Putz in there instead of White.Goose Gossage ,Bruce Sutter and Lee Smith allways pitched in tie games all of this specialty pitching has watered the game down that all of us love.I laugh every time i read we cant use are closer for 2 innings what a joke these are Major Leagur pitchers our at least some of them are..cough cough..I wish they would go back to the 10 man staffs and make guys pitch more and then there wouldnt be all these questions.
Yeah, guys, I think everyone agrees.
Of course, Putz might have a sore arm and they just don’t want to make it public, so we probably shouldn’t jump to conclusions, but if JJ wasn’t ever available than why wouldn’t McLaren be managing the pen as if Green or Morrow is the closer?
Rick White?
Ricardo Blanco is what i will refer to Mr white as from now on!
HAHA, now that’s funny, cujo.
Jason, is it likely that the M’s will bring back McLaren as the manager next year?
I’d say yes, but it’s not a sure thing, from what I was told originally.
Someone bring me Joe Girardi, Alan Trammell or Casey Stengel.
Hey Jason, I got to know, is their a future with Balentien in the M’s organization?