I have faith in him because from all I’ve read about him, he’s relentless and expects the same of his people. He wants more than routine scouting. I respect anyone who approaches their work with that kind of passion.

I don’t think Gillick had particularly strong drafts, but the guys he retained from Woody’s days, drafted typically only “make-up” kind of guys. The separation in strategy is that Fontaine also picks guys who may not have make-up, but show they can play the game. Hubbard is one of those guys. He didn’t get high marks for make-up, but showed he could play.

Fontaine isn’t likely to waste early picks on guys who don’t have make-up, but he’s not afraid to use mid to late picks on guys he feels can work themselves into a career.

Which is right? Hard to tell, yet. For everything Gillick lacked in the draft, he made up for in the International arena. Luckily, the brains behind that is still here, in Bob Engle. His good work is still going on…..seems there’s this shortstop in Wisconsin who can really play.

From tonight’s probable starting lineup:

Ichiro - FA
Vidro - Trade
Guillen - Trade
Ibanez - FA (previous Mariner)
Sexson - FA
Beltre - FA
Kohjima - FA
Batista - FA

What’s your point again?

Cleveland starts more home-grown talent than the M’s. So does Oakland. So do all of the teams I mentioned. I did miss on Thames and Proctor, although each did spend time in the Tigers and Yanks systems before coming to the show. But I’ll admit those mistakes. Doesn’t really change my point.

Again, you have the dubious duty here to demonstrate that Gillick left a strong farm system in place when he left. I’ll give you Felix, Lopez, and Jones. Putz really didn’t blossom until 2005, but we’ll give him to you. Same with Sherrill. We got fortunate with those two.

So tell us how awesome of prospects Dobbs, Livingston, Fruto, and Rivera were. Tell us how they contributed to a strong farm system. Then explain why that farm system has contributed so little over the last three years.

You are wrong on this point, bro.

But to interpret your blatherings: Do other systems produce as many current starters as the Gillick system did for the M’s? Just about every team in baseball starts at least as many home-grown talents as the M’s do. Playoff teams?

Detroit - Verlander, Zumaya, Inge, Monroe, Thames, Granderson, Maroth, Robertson
Minnesota - Just about the entire team
Cleveland - Just about the entire team
Oakland - You get the idea
Yankees - Rivera, Posada, Jeter, Procter, Pettite, Cano, Cabrera, Hughes,
Anahiem - Weaver, F-Rod, Shields, Santana, Kendrick, Kotchman

And that’s just the AL. I won’t bother to go through the Braves, Mets, Brewers, Dodgers, and D-Backs.

If you really think Dobbs and Livingston and Fruto are shining examples of Gillick’s prowess at stocking the minors with talent, you are way off the mark.

And you are wrong about choosing between three years of 90+ wins and 3 years in last place “hoping we have some prospects and watching bumblng bill spend…” Good franchises win AND build a strong farm system. Ask Minnesota, Oakland, Cleveland, Boston, Detroit, the Mets, the Braves, and the Dodgers how that works. I appreciated Gillick’s efforts to put a winning product on the field. However, he did NOT do a good job of minding the farm system, however, and he should not get a pass for that.

And by the way… What if Gillick WANTED to trade the vets and rebuild sooner and Lincoln and company wouldn’t let him?

Ever think of that? Because I’m 100% sure there were more than a few instances when Pat believed going younger might have made sense, or at least replacing the vet with a cheaper veteran until a kid was ready.

Sure, Gillick likes veterans, but so does Epstein and Cashman.

And C’mon, would you trade 2000-2003 where the team won 91, 116, 93 and 93 games and had two LCS appearances for a better farm system when Pat left the GM spot after ‘03?

Not me. The Mariners needed a quick return from their GM and Pat gave them that. There were consequences for doing so, which ended up being the money they spent on the draft being reduced and the 25-man carrying few youngsters. But he did it in ONE YEAR.

If Gillick would have been given, say five years to build, you don’t think he would have done things differently?

The suits will never give their GM more than a few years to get it done.

I’m not sure why you are bragging about most of those players. Sherrill, Putz, Jones, and Felix and maybe Lopez are the only quality players who even have the potential of having above-average careers. You find prospects like the rest in ANY other farm system. In essence, Gillick left us with a bunch of AAAA players.

The foundation for this team is built upon Bavasi/Fontaine picks. Six of Jason’s top ten prospects are Bavasi picks. (LaHair probably should be replaced, perhaps w/Tui - a Bavasi pick).

That said, the organization’s philosophy for player development has a horrible track record. It is therefore perfectly legitimate to doubt the Mariners’ decision re: Tillman.

You may not agree with it, but that’s how nearly every organization in baseball operates. Gillick was a rare bird, in that being a former scout, he liked to get a first hand look, in most cases. But, I’m willing to bet, he didn’t go out and look at every kid any time a move was recommended.