As the Seattle Mariners begin the last leg of a brutal 10-day, four-city road trip, I ask the same question I asked a few weeks ago; How good is this team?
Felix Hernandez is back and appears healthy. The stuff is there and his command is getting close. Washburn has remained solid and with Horacio Ramirez and Jeff Weaver both out of the starting rotation, the only excuse this team has is all about scoring runs.
Did someone say something about scoring runs? Okay, I won’t get too excited, since the 38 runs they have scored over the past four games have been against the Devil Rays and Royals, but it could be worse. They could have scored 18 runs during that span, which is exactly what the club did a year ago this month on a swing through Tampa Bay and Baltimore, who at the time were ranked 12th and 14th in ERA. In six games the M’s managed just 18 runs. This year they scored 48 runs in a similar six games. Clearly, the offense is different. It’s better.
But how much better, and can they create more runs against good pitching than they were able to in 2006? This series with the Angels may help us find that answer. LAA can pitch and though we’ll miss their best two starters in Escobar and Lackey, the Mariners already showed they can get to Escobar with their bumrush on him at Safeco Field two weeks back.
It’s not time to start talking trash, however, as the M’s, a decent team, did what any average club should do and that’s beat the crap out of Tampa Bay and Kansas City. But I will say this: For the first time since 2003, the Mariners appear to be just a few impact players away from being a legitimate threat in the American League. That’s still a lot to accomplish- adding impact players is never easy to do - but they haven’t been this close since they led the west by five games with 68 games to go back in ‘03.
Can they do it? What will it take? YOU tell ME.
If they need to add a few players, tell us all in detail how you would acquire such talent. What is being sent out in trade to get any players added? Which players would you call up? Be reasonable, be fair and realize you have to give up talent to get talent. And most of all, be smart about it. The Mariners aren’t going to be trading Ichiro to the Angels for Vlad, for example. Neither club would even think about it, so why even bring it up?
And let’s leave Hargrove out of this. Just for fun.
I say the M’s need another bat, a bench player who can hit, a healthy Chris Reitsma and one legit No. 3 starting pitcher to put up a good, long fight for the AL West that could last until the final weekend of the season.
What do you think?
Create a plan, a scenario, dig deep, do the homework and come back and post your plan and the rest of us will critque and ridicule and praise the ideas. Your chance to play GM.
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Excellent (except having to leave Hargrove alone, bashing him is so easy/fun). I’ll have my plan up in a bit.
I’m going to delete any posts that don’t show how they got the players, and explain their rationale for the moves.
It’s a shame that the Cubs’ outfield is so full, because I’d love to package Wlad in a deal for Carlos Z.
Instead, I would offer them Chen, one of our younger pitching prospects, and a reliever (Green, Reitsma - someone on that level) in exchange for Zambrano. No, Carlos has not pitched well this year, but considering his history, I’d be willing to take the risk that he returns to form.
I would also see if Detroit was interested in trading Nate Robertson. They have excellent pitching depth in AAA right now, and they could use an upgrade from Monroe in the outfield. Would they trade Robertson for Ibanez or Jose Guillen, + Wlad (Who could replae Sheffield once he leaves the team)? I’d make that trade, as it would subsequently allow Jones to be promoted.
Assuming we’re able to acquire starting pitching via trade, I would move Miguel Batista ASAP to a team like the yankees. New York should be able to absorb his salary, and it would give them some much-needed help in the rotation. I’d be content with a PTBNL in exchange. Anything better would be gravy.
I’m content with our offense. It isn’t a world beater, but it’s fine. Making these moves would give us a 1-5 of Felix - Washburn - Zambrano - Robertson - Baek, while Feierabend would be able to return to AAA to prepare for next season.
Thoughts?
I read the first two paragraphs and stopped… Why?
Because why in the world would the Cubs deal Zambrano for that?
Because of an ERA of 5.24 and a 1.49 WHIP. Maybe I am undervaluing him there a little bit because of that. Plus, I’m a lot higher on Chen than I probably ought to be.
I figured a package of a couple touted prospects (Chen + someone like Tillman) and an extra arm would be reasonable. What would you say is a more realistic offer?
The Cubs are better off keeping and continuing their push for the playoffs in 2007 in hopes they can re-sign Zambie.
Plus, he’s starting to pitch better… He was pretty good yesterday.
It would take either Jones or Clement + Wlad to get Zambrano, and even then the Cubs probably wouldn’t do it (though at that price, they probably should).
2 months of poor stats isn’t going to lower the value of a guy who’s been a dominant workhorse for years.
Jones and Clement were my first thoughts about Zambrano, but they already have more than enough outfielders, and Barrett is doing a fine job as their catcher. I’d love to bid for Z, but Chicago’s needs don’t seem to sync up well with what we have to spare.
We’re not gonna get Zambrano…look for more realistic options. HINT HINT, look at the picture Jason put up.
Sorry jason for the mishap
Benchie (Wlad) call up from tacoma
Morrow as #3 starter, DFA Weaver and put Rameriz in the bull pen as long man
Trade for Tori Hunter with us giving up 3 B prospects.
Goose’s Plan Take 1:
First off, send out feelers to the Twins and White Sox in regards to Boof Bonser and Javier Vazquez. I doubt the Twins will be interested in dealing Bonser, but I’ll try anyways. I’ll also tell the White Sox that I’m willing to pay a majority of Javier’s remaining salary, but the price in talent drops if I do.
If the White Sox will eat most of Vazquez’s contract, I offer them Jake Woods, Wlad Balentien, and maybe Adam Moore. If I’m eating money, I offer Sean Green and Brain LaHair.
If the White Sox aren’t willing to deal, I contact Milwaukee and inquire into David Bush. Bush is ultimately my main target. I offer them Wlad Balentien,Justin Thomas, and a PTBNL.
Next, I let it be known that Jose Vidro is hitting .310 and leads all DH’s in hits. I’ll take whatever I can get for him, especially if I can con somebody into eating some money.
Didn’t Jason ask for “well thought out” trade scenarios?? Why do I see names like Chen, Sean Green, and Woods being thrown around.. Those players are worthless.. nobody would want anything to do with them…
I would ask these two questions:
1. Why would the Sox pay a single cent of Vazquez’s salary unless they were getting every last future major leaguer the M’s had in their system?
2. Why would Vazquez ever agree to come to Seattle? He has a no-trade clause that includes all west coast clubs and there’s no chance he waives it come here.
The Bush idea is a good one and the trade offer makes some sense, but I don’t see why a contending team would trade a solid starting pitcher…
That’s way off topic. We’re talking about 2007.
Deleted.
Quick plan to bolster..
Bullpen:
1) Sean White = gone, when Reitsma returns
2) Sean Green = gone, Huber stays up
Bench:
1)Bloomquist = gone, Morse called up
2)Ellison = gone, Reed called up
Will never happen, but Morse and Reed provide significantly better bats then Bloomy and Ellison…
Trade Ideas:
1) Noah Lowry for Ryan Feierabend and Wlad Balentein
Oh yeah, I forgot about Vazquez’s no trade. Doh.
Bush’s ERA is over 6, and he’s pretty much been the worst pitcher in their rotation. Plus they’ve got Yovani Gallardo who’s practically beating down the door to get into that rotation. Trading Bush would open up a spot.
So if Bush sucks, why do the Mariners want him?
And you don’t trade cheap arms with good stuff just to open a spot. They’ll make room for Gallardo when they know he’s ready, and when that time comes, they are probably more likely to send Bush to the pen to help Wise setup Cordero than trade him for what his struggles in 2007 would net in return.
If we were giving Milwaukee an upgrade in another area I could see something being possible, but otherwise, I just don’t get it.
Feierabend might be as good as Lowry as early as 2008… no need for that. But Lowry is the level of pitcher that might be the perfect target. Nobody is trading starting pitching right now, but if you can pry one away, a mid-rotation type like Lowry or an expensive starter is probably the only way.
Because Bush’s suck is an illusion. 6.71 K/9, 3.83 K/BB, 1.47 GB/FB, 3.69 xFIP.
As far as an upgrade at the major league level for them goes, I suppose we could do something involving Guillen, but that’s about all I can think of.
I only like that deal, cause Lowry is a guy u heard about during the offseason.. SF is going nowhere… and while Feir may be as good as Lowry in a couple years… Lowry is the better arm right now…
And I thought we were talking about a guy who could make us a contender this season… M’s get that guy in Lowry.. SF who stinks gets basically a potential Lowry for the future, and a power bat they could certainly use..
Helps the M’s this season… Helps SF in the near future
There should be no Guillen, Vidro, Ibanez chatter… Nobody on this offense is going anywhere… Maybe Broussard gets swapped in a minor deal to bolster something, but that is it…
Re:Bush
And you or the Mariners are the only one’s that think his suckedness is an illusion?
Re: Lowry
I’m with ya, blowgun, I’m just playing devil’s advocate to get out all the details and cover all the bases. I’d deal Feier for Noah right now. I wouldn’t throw in Wlad at the moment, but I’d seriously consider that, too, and so should San Francisco. But the Giants think they are still in it right now. Maybe in July they are 15 back and have to admit they aren’t in it.
I’d trade Wlad Balentien and Jose Lopez to the Twins for Luis Castillo and Scott Baker.
The M’s are too right-handed and will be for the forseeable future. Lopez is a big part of that “problem”. There are just too many bottom of the order righty bats in the system right now and not enough top-of-the-order type hitters.
Castillo is a free agent that the Mariners should try hard to re-sign.
Balentien can take over the Cirillo/Rondell White role in Minnesota.
Baker is expendable because the Twins will have a lot of other better young starters.
For relief help, I’d send Justin Thomas to the Yankees for Luis Vizcaino if Lowe doesn’t come back.
1) Luis Vizcaino?? The guy has been atrocious for the Yanks… You’re giving up a lefty with quality stuff who could easily slide into the mid to back end of a future Mariner rotation.. Or at the minimum be a pretty good late reliever from the left side… That trade is crazy..
2) I wont even get into Lopez… geez.. 23 yr old on the fast track to being a pretty darn good player… He’s a middle of the order hitter someday if he keeps progressing like he has… We have ZERO quality middle infielders in the system (Triunfel will play a corner position).. I hate that trade too..
Whats the deal with Jon Garland.. always seems to be rumors swirling about his status in Chicago.. I think he is owed 10 million this year and 12 million next…
If Chicago falls too far behind.. How bout we snag Garland for Feierabend, Bibens Dirx and Rob Johnson? Maybe Butler and Johnson if they want a guy with higher ceiling… There system seriously lacks left handed starters…
These trades are tough to make.. the M’s have a handful of really good hitters (Jones, Clement, Tui, Triunfel, Balentein) who are hard to part with for a #3 starter.. After that our hitters just suck..
Pitching wise.. We have Feir and Justin Thomas to a lesser extent (although i think he’s just as good).. as “close” pitching prospects and while both those guys could be solid starters, they aren’t really can’t miss mid to top rotation guys…
Then we got the young arms like Tillman, Butler, Adcock who all have really high ceilings and would be tough to give up on for a #3 starter…
I’d give up Butler at this point though for a guy like Garland.. He’s a #2 caliber when he’s pitching well
Sorry for the multiple posts.. but Feierabend could be a good fit for the White SOx given that Buehrle could walk after this year, and I’ve seen some people compare the two… Also, if Buehrle reups, maybe he can show Feir a few things…
Great.
Deleted.
Heres a little theory. Less to do with specific trades but more to who’s available.
I could see Bavasi doing his best to re-sign Ichiro before the trading deadline. If the Mariners are still in it and Ichiro re-signed, I bet we would be saying bye-bye to Adam Jones in a deal for starting pitching.
That being said, we would most likely get screwed to the wall with Bavasi packaging Jones with others to get an overrated or soon-to-be FA pitcher.
i’d do Wlad to the CWS for Andrew Sisco
Wlad could play LF and would be an upgrade over Pod. who could move to center.
another option is Sexson to the Yanks for Tyler Clippard. the yanks need a power hitting 1B and someone who doesnt bat left-handed.
Wlad for Scott Baker might be an option too
Baker is blocked by too many people and the Twins might be willing to trade him
Although I AM against the m’s making any moves at this point, considering how “well” they have tended to work out the past few years, how about dealing wlad, feir and somebody like kyle parker/uhlmansiek to the reds for a combo of arroyo/harang and hamilton/hatteberg. this would clear space for them to bring up homer bailey and possibly joey votto (if hatterberg were dealt) or wlad (if it were hamilton) and cut payroll.
The first thing I would do would be to make sure Ichiro’s extension is in order. Tell him Hargrove is gone next season or whatever it takes but let him know that we need a decision from him if we are going to plan for the 2008 season. If the Ichiro situation is taken care of, then the M’s can trade Adam Jones.
I would attempt to find a pitcher from the Twins. They currently have Matt Garza and Kevin Slowey waiting to take a stop in the big league rotation with and injured Liriano and Glen Perkins waiting in the wings. Torii Hunter is a free agent next year and the Twins could use another outfielder right now because they don’t have a good left field situation. I dangle Adam Jones in front of the Twins and if they are willing to give up Slowey or Garza for him then I make the trade and stick that person in the rotation. If that doesn’t work I would dangle Wlad for someone like Scott Baker (it’s been suggested, I know).
The player who doesn’t get traded comes up to the big league club and replaces Jason Ellison, who’s only value is as a defensive replacement/PR. That’s about all the trading I would do.
The major change I would make would be to turn Vidro into our 10th bat and have a platoon of Wlad/Jones and Broussard take the DH spot. Vidro could spot start between 1B, 2B, 3B and DH but the team would be better served with Broussard and one of our young outfielders getting AB’s. Vidro’s approach would make him a better pinch hitter than someone like Adam Jones as well.
The bullpen moves out see Sean White and Green off the big league roster. Jon Huber would take one of those spots as would our mystery starter. When Reitsma returns, I could see him replacing Jason Davis.
I’ll detail all the moves, even the smaller ones, that I’d make as GM. I know they aren’t the one’s the organization would make, but screw them and there horrible decision making. Here goes…
Low Impact Moves
1. Release Rene Rivera
He’s downright terrible. The Mariners have 3 good catching prospects (if you count Clement), so Rivera has no future here. It doesn’t make a huge difference, but it clears up a spot on the 40-man roster in case we need it. It makes NO sense having Rivera on the 40-man roster. None. Zero. Bye bye.
2. Release Jeff Weaver
He’s the worst M’s pitcher ever. If you have to have this explained than you’re damn near hopeless.
3. Get Jason Ellison of the major league roster
Either send him down, trade him to some other team for basically nothing, or if it comes to it, just release him. There’s no point in wasting a spot on the roster for a guy who is a rarely used defensive sub. This is so that you can…
4. Deal Horacio Ramirez to an NL team
While he’s proved he can’t pitch in the AL, I’m sure there some NL team out there willing to give up a player to be named later for him. So do it.
High Impact Moves
5. Call up Adam Jones
The kid is ready to play on a major league level. Put him on a platoon with Ibanez immediately. He’d be a huge defensive upgrade. (Side note: I’d trade Ibanez for more pitching help, but it won’t happen so I’ll end the discussion there.)
6. Make Morrow a starter
Look, he’s fantastic as a set-up guy, but you don’t draft a set-up man with a top 10 draft pick. Move him to the rotation where he can make a significant impact. When Reitsma comes back he can handle the set up spot. I’m sure Morrow would get knocked around a bit in his first couple outings trying to rediscover his off-speed stuff, but I think he knows he can get big league hitters out and the bullpen guys support him, so I think he’d get through it. If this team wants to make the playoffs they’re gonna have to make a few gambles. This would be one of those.
7. Trade for Mark Buehrle
Sure I’d rather deal for Dontrell Willis or Carlos Zambrano, but the M’s don’t have the chips to make a deal like that. So here’s the deal I’d make. Ship Wlad, Sean White, and Ryan Rowland-Smith. Buehrle isn’t an ace by any stretch, but he’d be a HUGE improvement at the #3 spot. I think we could get him at that relatively cheap price because he and the Chicago front office aren’t friends to say the least. Plus they’re dying for an outfielder. I’d be willing to give up a bit more (maybe Feierabend?), but why if you don’t have to?
Roster:
Starters:
1. Felix Hernandez
2. Jarrod Washburn
3. Mark Buehrle
4. Brandon Morrow
5. Miguel Batista
Bullpen:
Closer: J.J. Putz
Set-up: Chris Reitsma
Lefty Specialist: George Sherrill
Other RP: Jason Davis, Sean Green, Cha Seung Baek, Eric O’Flaherty
Starting Lineup Vs LHP:
CF- Ichiro
C- Johjima
RF- Guillen
1B- Sexson
DH- Vidro
3B- Beltre
SS- Betancourt
2B- Lopez
LF- Adam Jones
Starting Lineup Vs RHP:
CF-Ichiro
C- Johjima
RF- Guillen
LF- Ibanez
1B- Sexson
DH- Vidro
3B- Beltre
SS- Betancourt
2B- Lopez
Bench:
C- Burke
1B/LF- Broussard
Utl- Bloomquist
Plus either Jones or Ibanez depending on the day.
i’d do Wlad to the CWS for Andrew Sisco
Wlad could play LF and would be an upgrade over Pod. who could move to center.
Yikes. Sisco just got demoted to AAA for “sucking”. Why would we deal a up and coming bat for a lefty reliever.. and not a very good one at that?
Greg-
I would love to be Kenny Williams and get the call that offered me Wlad for Sisco. Unfortunately, if Bavasi made that trade… I’d have another Billy Beane moment.
I don’t think the M’s would ever platoon Ibanez. No matter how bad he is against lefties.
Well ya. That’s because they’re a bunch of pusses. But it’s what I’d do because it’s the right move.
I like some of these ideas, but one thing I hate seeing is everybody wanting to move Wlad. I wouldn’t trade a single prospect, we aren’t that close to being a contender to throw away the future. There is some simply solutions and a few trade options that could help the team now and for next year. 2008 and 2009 are the years we should build for.
1. Wlad called up and put in left field for Ibanez. He is ready and if he isn’t then you know for next year because he is all out of options.
2. Trade Sexson to the Giants for J. Sanchez. This kid as great upside and could probably get him because the Giants want to win now.
3. Move Ibanez to first base. He cannot play the outfield, but with a little work could fit in nicely.
4. Play Broussard more often at the DH and first base. Good bat if used correctly.
5. DFA Weaver, and send Ramirez down to Tacoma. Be open to all trades for Ramirez.
6. Look for all trade possibilities for Ichiro. If you could get a front of the rotation person for him then snag it, if not get to work on an extension. Jones call up if traded.
7. Call up Morse, DFA Ellson. Morse has handed major league hitting and can help feel holes if injuries arise. Ellison isn’t worth a 25 man roster spot.
Starting Rotation
1. Felix
2. Washburn
3. Batista
4. Sanchez
5. Baek
Line-up
1. Ichiro/Jones (if traded)
2. Vidro
3. Kenji
4. Ibanez
5. Guillen
6. Beltre
7. Lopez
8. Wlad
9. Betancourt
I’d love to make a move for Adam Dunn. He would make this lineup absolutely devastating. The only trade pieces we have are Wlad and Adam Jones and I don’t see the Reds wanting either of those two for him. What about Sexson for Todd Helton? They want to move his contract and we could certainly afford it. It would be a trade of bad contracts but we’d end up with the short end of the stick money wise.
George Sherril and Feierabend/Thomas for Marcus Thames. Tigers need a lefty specialist after Jamie Walker left. Thames is a big power bat that isnt being used.
Where would Thames play? Can’t DH because of contract of Vidro. Can’t play outfield becuase of Ichiro, Ibanez, and Guillen. Thames is just a bad/overrated Guillen. Why would you give up two potential #3 or #4 rotation pitchers plus our top lefty specialist for him?
George Sherril, Jose Vidro, and Wlad for Jason Giambi. The Yanks need a relief ace to set up Rivera, they have already talked about trading Giambi due to the steoroids. The Yanks like patient hitters as Vidro. If we take your salary you take ours, and we throw in Wlad to make it happen. FYI, Giambi would be a beast in the Safe, power DH we need.
I would then target a # 3, the best option would be Burnett, if the Jays are out. You throw a Clement, Feir, and B prospect to make it happen. My back up choice would be Millwood, in which I would throw a few solid B prospects.
The minor moves would be release Ellison and bring up Reed.
Cut White and leave Huber up.
Hope Lowe comes back healthy and we are on our way.
1) Ichiro
2) Beltre
3) Giambi
4) Sexson
5) Ibanez
6) Joh
7) Guillen
8) Lopez
9) Yubet
1) Felix
2) Burnett
3) Wash
4) Bautista
5) Baek
Pen - Putz, Morrow, Lowe, Davis, Reitsma, O’Flaherty, Huber.
ozzie -
get rid of vidro
trade him for a shiney coin
To follow up on mine, we would be taking a big slary hit this year but the loss of Weaver (8.3 million) and Horacio (4 million) and Vidro (7.5 million) would almost cover the 29 million Burnett and Giambi would make next year. I think the trades are realistic and this puts us as true contenders this year and legitimate favorites next year with the King, Morrow, Burnett, and Wash as our top four.
Greg07-
Vidro has been one of our most consistent hitters all year and sports our second highest on-base percentage on the team. Nobody, besides Jones/Wlad, are ready to take on the DH role in the minors. Broussard’s career numbers indicate that he can’t be a full time player, so I don’t want him as a everyday player. I want Jones to concentrate on making more contact in AAA and Wlad I want to take over left field.
Vidro trade should be a option much closer to the trade deadline or in off-season. For now i want him on my team.
ur right ozzie, vidro has been very consistent
but i believe that having somebody else (ie: Thames) would help out the team more than jus a .300 AVG with little power
At this stage, there’s no way in heck we see a roster makeover or any veterans jettisoned. Robert Rohrbaugh and Austin Bibens-Dirkx for Steve Trachsel. Two cheap prospect arms for the Orioles, one innings-eater No. 3 starter for the Mariners.
Okay so people may think I’m crazy but, if it was possible I would make a run at Dontrelle Willis since it seems plausible that he may be on the market. First reason is that, Florida who has let go of proven pitching talent in the past for prospects is currently 9.5 games out of first behind some pretty good teams in the Braves, Mets and an improving Phillies. Two, Willis, even though he’s rather young is starting to get a little too expensive for the Marlins to keep even though he’s one of the more marketable faces of that franchise. The logic for Florida to maybe move him is that it may help out with the chance they could keep Cabrera for a little longer, someone who in all honestly is more valuable offensively to the overall team then Willis is to pitching due to the fact that Florida has a pretty deep pitching pool and in a trade would probably bring some more depth also.
So with that said I would probably offer several packages ranging from:
Package A
Jeff Clement + Justin Thomas + George Sherrill
-Florida needs a catcher/catching prospect
-Justin Thomas is a good LHP Prospect
-George Sherrill would help out the Marlins Bullpen by either being a closer or just a needed arm since they only have 2 Lefties in their pen, and both get hit hard, and it may be possible Sherrill could even close for them.
Package B
Rene Rivera or Rob Johnson + Brandon Morrow + Jeremy Reed
-Rivera maybe a stretch in terms of quality starting catcher but he may be able to get by in the NL with his Bat. Johnson would give them a pretty good catcher though.
-As much as I like Morrow and like how much potential he has, I could part ways with him even though it hurts the pen a lot now, Mark Lowe is on his way back, Reitsma has shown to be pretty dependable, Huber looks alright, the draft is also coming up and we may be able to find ourselves once again with some power RH arms like Parker who would also project as a future starter, and what your getting back in return is a proven Starter (Think Felix 1, Willis 2)Morrow could step in now for Florida and close down games and in the future they could try to make him a starter.
-Reed, can play center or the corner outfield for the Marlins and do so pretty well defensively, probably hit a little better in their Stadium and the NL, may never be a lead off guy, but they could try to capture what Reed had back in the Minors with Chicago, and would actually be of some value to the Mariners since he gets off the 40-man roster and isn’t just sitting there as a memento from the Garcia trade.
Package C
Wlad + Rob Johnson + Justin Thomas + Jeremy Reed or a Mike Wilson type prospect
-Wlad (personally would rather keep but if it helped with landing a Willis I could bare with it)
- The rest have been named previously
Honestly though I doubt the Mariners would be able to get Willis, but in my eyes he would be someone I would like to see them get.
I don’t wanna give up AB-D. Just because of his pure coolness.
Oooh boy this one is tough. I have a few different scenarios here. I’ll just go with two…the trade Ichiro Scenario and the don’t trade Ichiro scenario.
Don’t trade Ichiro Scenario:
1. Trade 1B Richie Sexson and OF Jeremy Reed to FLA for SP Sergio Mitre. Pay about half of Richie’s salary, inquire about Mike Jacobs to possibly explore a deal too. (Fills our #3 need)
2. Trade C Rob Johnson, SP Ryan Feierabend, RP Stephen Kahn to TB for OF Carl Crawford. (Young, only getting better, perfect for Safeco)
3. Trade OF Raul Ibanez, DH Jose Vidro, SP Justin Lehr, and OF Greg Halman to DET for LHP Nate Robertson. (This is more of a salary dump and taking advantage of a FO that values Craig Monroe, the ghost of Placido Polanco, and hopefully a FO that is convinced Miller can take Robertson’s spot)
4. DFA HoRam and Weaver, DFA Willie, call up Huber to stay, Mike Morse, and Austin Bibens-Dirkx.
5. Call up OF Adam Jones.
Trade Ichiro Scenario:
1. Trade OF Ichiro Suzuki, and OF Wlad Balentien to LAD for OF Matt Kemp and LHP Scott Elbert. (replacement OF and SP)
2. Trade 1B Richie Sexson, SP Jorge Campillo, and OF Jeremy Reed to BAL for LHP Adam Loewen. (SP depth)
3. Trade OF Raul Ibanez, DH Jose Vidro, and OF Greg Halman to KC for OF Billy Butler. (Extra bat for 2008 or now if necessary, clears roster of dead weight, KC would love Raul Back and Halman is a good prospect. KC may be dumb enough to take Vidro.)
4. Trade C Rob Johnson, SP Ryan Feierabend, and RP Stephen Kahn to TB for OF Carl Crawford. (Young, only getting better, perfect for Safeco)
5. DFA HoRam and Weaver and Willie, call up Huber to stay, Mike Morse, and Austin Bibens-Dirkx. (Necessary)
6. Call up Adam Jones, find room for whichever of Butler or Kemp is left out in 2008.
That leaves the roster looking like this: (if separated by a /, the left side is with Ichiro, the right without)
C Kenji Johjima
1B Ben Broussard
2B Jose Lopez
3B Adrian Beltre
SS Yuniesky Betancourt
LF Carl Crawford
CF Ichiro/Adam Jones
RF Jose Guillen
DH Wlad Balentien/Matt Kemp
Bench
C Burke
IF Morse
OF Ellison
1B LaHair/Butler?
Rotation
Felix
Washburn
Mitre/Elbert
Batista
Robertson/Loewen
Bullpen
Putz
Morrow (move him to the rotation and swap him with Batista in 2008)
Huber
Bibens-Dirkx
Reitsma
Sherrill
O’Flaherty
Bullpen is stronger, the offense improves a lot in scenario A and stays the same while fulfilling the need to shed Ichiro before he walks (this is assuming he says he won’t re-sign with us.) It makes the rotation lefty-heavy, but they’re all solid enough to improve the team now. I saw the Buerhle picture and tried to think about what pieces we have to trade for him, and while they need a CF, I don’t think Reed + a B prospect is enough, and I don’t want to trade Ichiro for only one #3 starter. I couldn’t think of any other way to make it work.
For 2008, if A-Rod opts out, I sign him to an 8 year, $220 million contract and trade Betancourt for a Bronson Arroyo level #3 starter while putting A-Rod and all his diminished range back at SS. I’d also sign Doyle to a 5 year, $10 million contract and try to play him in at least 100 games.
I think all these moves are plausible, and I know I like Crawford better than most people, despite his low OBP even though I’m an OBP freak…but I am convinced this team would be better than the one we have now. I do feel this isn’t the strongest fake team I’ve put together in recent memory, but it is 4AM. I’d love to hear you pick this one apart Jason. I mean no sarcasm in that, I want to see your critiques. Sorry this is so long….
On second thought, instead of Billy Butler, make the player coming back to the M’s in the KC deal Justin Huber. He’d fit better and be good Broussard insurance.
Ah, Rosterbation.
Trade LHP Ryan Feierabend, OF Wladamir Balentien, & C Adam Moore to Cincinnati for RHP Aaron Harang, picking up all of Harang’s contract. I’m not sure how likely this is. The Reds just signed Harang to a heavily backloaded four year contract extension with a club option for 2011 and they don’t seem to have any problems with him whatsoever. Then again, they’re not going anywhere as a team, and may be looking to offload before they become problems. I’m relatively certain we could fill one of our two most pressing needs by dealing with Cincinnati, but I chose to take a lefty bat elsewhere.
Trade 1B Bryan Lahair & RHP Mark Lowe (as a PTBNL, completed when he returns) to Houston in exchange for 1B Lance Berkman, picking up all of his contract. Berkman has started off horribly this year, and the Astros are going no where having his contract hanging around. After not landing Roger Clemens, I’m wondering if the Astros might be willing to cash it in while getting a first base prospect and an ace relief arm to solidify their bullpen woes.
Purchase the contracts of Jorge Campillo, Justin Lehr, and Justin Thomas. Option Sean Green to Tacoma. Return Sean White to Atlanta for 25,000.
And that’s about all I would do. After adding close to 20 million to the payroll, the Mariners would also subtantially increase their chances of making the postseason. Lineups as follows:
CF - L - Ichiro Suzuki
3B - R - Adrian Beltre
DH - L - Lance Berkman
RF - R - Jose Guillen
C - R - Kenji Jojima
LF - L - Raul Ibanez
1B - R - Richie Sexson
2B - R - Jose Lopez
SS - R - Yuniesky Betancourt
Bench - Jason Ellison, Willie Bloomquist, Jose Vidro, Jamie Burke, Ben Broussard
SP - Felix Hernandez
SP - Jarrod Washburn
SP - Aaron Harang
SP - Miguel Batista
SP - Cha Seung Baek
RP - Jason Davis
RP - Eric O’Flaherty
RP - John Huber
RP - Brandon Morrow
RP - George Sherrill
RP - JJ Putz
Rip asunder, gentlemen.
One thing to remember is that we can’t make this team any more right handed, many of the proposals I see are doing just that. We have to keep at the left handed bats, or replace them with other lefties.
I don’t think any major league team is going to take Vidro, so it’s a given he stays. Sexson is pretty much untradeable, so he probably stays as well. Ibanez is the face of the franchise, so he’s untouchable too. Every other piece I wouldn’t trade as it would really hurt the team going forward.
First things first we need a starting pitcher. I’d try to target someone like Mark Buerhle or Scott Baker. The problem with Buerhle is I don’t believe that he is signed for next year. I’d hate to give up a whole lot for him just to rent him for a few months. Scott Baker probably won’t give you the same performance, but he’s under club control. I would guess Baker could probably be obtained for Wlad plus some minor league talent. I would wager the White Sox would require a bit more. Their outfield is in sorry shape though, so Wlad would be an upgrade for them and they would probably like to have someone like Broussard as they are also a very right handed team. He could spell Konerko at first and play RF occasionally. Plus he’s good insurance if Thome goes down again.
Now that we have bolstered the pitching staff, we need a bench bat. I’d prefer to have someone left handed and someone who can play the outfield. I’d target teams that have extra outfielders. Jacque Jones, Brad Wilkerson, and Frank Catalanotto. I’d guess that the Rangers might be hesitant to trade in the division, but I think you could get Jacque Jones for not much. Maybe a minor league pitching prospect and position player. Maybe someone who could relieve for them right now (Sean Green, Jake Woods, Jon Huber) and someone like Rob Johnson.
Next I deal Jose Guillen for whatever you can get. I imagine there is a contending team that would take him for a useful reliever. San Diego, LA, and San Fransisco could all use his bat in the outfield.
Finally I call up Adam Jones and Mike Morse from Tacoma.
This gives us a whole lot more flexibility. I’d set up a rotation where Jacque Jones only plays LF against RHP and we can let Ibanez play either 1B or DH on those days. With Vidro also doing DH duties and Sexson being the other DH. You could also sit Adam Jones and play Ibanez in RF against RHP. Against LHP Vidro DH’s, Sexson always plays 1B, Jones is RF, and Ibanez moves to LF. Morse can back up all the corner spots and is the RHB off the bench.
Our rotation goes with Felix, Washburn, Baek, Baker/Buerhle, Batista. You can decide to keep one of the two between Ramierz/Weaver and make him a reliever, the other gets a DFA.
The only thing I’m unsure of is how much the LH outfield bat costs. I think the cubs make that trade for Jacque Jones as they really need to make room in that outfield, and he’s gone after next year anyway. I could also say the same thing for Brad Wilkerson in Texas too.
Jason, nice idea for discussion. Here is what I would propose:
Adam Jones, Rob Johnson and Justin Thomas to Florida for Scott Olsen. Trying to be realistic as everyone knows the price of starting pitching is high and when the starting pitcher doesn’t cost much(salary), the price even goes higher.
In Olsen, the M’s get a young cheap lefthanded starting pitcher in his 2nd full year in the bigs. Florida needs a CF. Currently playing Amezaga. So Jones would be an upgrade. The Marlins could also use a catcher in Johnson and in Thomas I figure you have to give up quality to get quality.
Olsen goes into the #3 role and Ramerez goes into long relief and White goes back to the Braves.
The problem is that there really isn’t a realistic scenario that can make this team better offensively. I believe Bavasi has painted himself into a corner. This is not just nostalgia, and I am sure I will be ripped, but I think Jr. WOULD HAVE made alot of sense for this team as the DH. His left handed power would have been valuable, but there is no where for him to play. Vidro is making too much to just dump and you can’t stick Jr. in the OF or he will get hurt. Even if you could stick him in the OF, the M’s shouldn’t move Guillen, Ichiro has to stay and they wouldn’t move Raul. They won’t add an IF because there isn’t a place to play there either, because Richie makes too much.
The only hope as I see it is to try and upgrade your pitching staff. To me the M’s need another dominant starter that could help Felix go all Randy and Curt on the playoffs. To do that, they would have to lock up Ichiro and trade Jones, Feir, and Johnson to the Marlins for Dontrelle. That said, I don’t think Willis could get the job done, and you would be hurting the franchise greatly for next year and beyond.
I say, go with what you got. Stay in it as long as you can and try to re-sign Ichiro. If he stays you can make Jones the CF and move Ichiro back to RF or you could make Jones the centerpiece of a larger off season trade when there will be more teams willing to deal a pitcher. Draft well on June 7, and pray that someone will take Richie off your hands. I would have Wlad as my 4th OF next year, and Morrow as my number 4 starter.
Mutt-
Good call on Scott Olsen. I’m sure it would take more than what you suggest, because they would try to sell us on taking Willis instead. I wonder if a package of Feierabend, Jones and Johnson would work.
even though i know the mariners aren’t agressive enough to do any of these trades, i’ll give it a shot
trade Richie Sexson and Wlad to CIN for Griffey and Matt Belisle
if that trade happens, trade vidro for whoever u can get (other team picks up salary) and play Ibanez at first, Griffey DH, Guillen in left, Adam Jones in center, Ichiro in right
this lineup would be nice
RF - Ichiro
CF - A. Jones
DH - Griffey
LF - Guillen
1B - Ibanez
3B - Beltre
C - Johjima
2B - Lopez
SS - Betancourt
and a rotation with
Felix
Washburn
Bautista
Feierabend
Belisle
slight upgrade at rotation, but not great
Well, one thing is clear……most people here overvalue Seattle prospects and undervalue the intellect of other GMs.
Rule #1: If you don’t want them, neither do other teams.
Rule #2: Wlad, while interesting is having a breakout year. GMs with any brains, never trade for fluke seasons.
Rule #3: Pitching, pitching and more pitching. NOBODY is handing it over for the likes of Wlad and a few prospects. There isn’t enough to go around, period. So, if you give it up. you better get SOLID prospects in return. Minimum playing card is Adam Jones. Ready to give him up?
Cracks me up to STILL see the “Get rid of Willie” crap, for Morse. Since when is a better bat on the bench going to win games? Don’t we have either Broussard or Guillen, depending on who’s starting, to do that duty as a pinch hitter. Yet, somehow, we need a good bat for a guy who’s role is to field and occationally steal a base in late innings? I’m not opposed to Morse, but the very notion that his being here is a needed change, is simply kidding yourself. If Bloomquist was getting 400 ABs a year, I’d be concerned…..but he’ll be lucky to get 200.
It’s clear to me that everyone thinks trades just magically appear, because they want them to. But, you aren’t going to find great players dealt for anything less than top prospects….even if they are a rent-a-player. And, it’s a freakin’ mute point at this time of the season. NOBODY’s dealing….even the bad teams. The best the Yankees could do was bring back Roger Clemens for five time more than he’s worth.
It’s fun to play the game, but it’s harder than hell to get done in reality.
I think we need a right hand bench bat that can hit. My suggestion for this is Jonny Gomes. He’s good against lefties and Tampa Bay has no reason to keep them on their crowded roster. He could also be used to set up a platoon on LF if Ibanez continues to struggle and would take Ellison’s spot. I figure it wouldn’t take too much since he’s struggled and their pitching is horrible. Maybe give them Woods and a low A ball pitcher I’ve never heard of.
An impact bat or starting pitcher is hard to get without sacrificing the future. I feel like trading Ichiro would make us a worse team this year but he’s really the only trading chip that would allow us to get pitching while leaving most of the top prospects intact.
Ok some of these are a bit iffy so we’ll see and don’t expect to be happy after this year.
-Jeff Clement to Boston for Jon Lester. (They’ll need a catcher soon. We have plenty of depth at catcher. I know it hurts a little.)
-Beltre and cash to the Twins for Bonser. (I’m not sure if they’d do it but right now 3B for them is pathetic.)
-Tillman and Tui and Wlad to Baltimore for Miguel Tejada. (Also not sure if this would work)
-Woods and Rohrbaugh to Tampa Bay for Jonny Gomes.
-Then bring bench Vidro and have a platoon of Gomes/Broussard.
That way our rotation is:
Felix/Washburn/Lester/Bonser/AAAA guy
And the lineup is:
RF/CF/LF/1B/2B/SS/3B/C
Guillen/Ichiro/Ibanez/Sexson/Lopez/Betancourt/Tejada/Johjima with a platoon at DH of Gomes/Broussard.
And the bench is:
Vidro/Bloomquist/Burke/and random 4th OF who could be Ellison, Jones, or Reed. Could also call Morse up and send down one of the relievers.
Trade HoRam for Soriano, Oh wait the Braves wouldn’t be that dumb.
Hideki Matsui and Adam Dunn.
1. Trade Feierabend, Mateo and Rob Johnson to Cincy for Dunn and Joey Votto.
2. Trade Washburn for Matsui and Dellin Betances.
Also, depending on the price, I wouldn’t mind exploring Miguel Cabrera, but I doubt he would be available before his last arby year.
The Reds are done this year, they will once again be a middle of the road team in that division and Dunn is almost gone. They have plenty of players to replace Dunn who are much cheaper so the loss will not be great. On the other hand, they get Feierabend who could start for them right now, a future starting catcher in Johnson, who they could use right now. Cincy might not care about Mateo’s past, especially being so so far from it. In fact, I don’t think the Mariners would care if it wasn’t an issue with the fans.
The second trade is tough to swallow, but it is what it is. Washburn is the only player we have who could snag a very good offensive player with some years left on the contract. In the end, we live and die with Felix and 4 question marks, if the 4 question marks fail we are screwed either way, but with Matsui the question marks have a better chance to win than Washburn provides every 5th day.
This leaves us in a precarious position: 4 players for 3 spots. Vidro is the odd man out if Ibanez gets healthy. Vidro could probably be traded for a bullpen guy. I hope he is traded. It’s not that he hasn’t performed this year, he it’s that he has performed well below his price tag and remaining contract. Vidro’s contract will be noose around the next GMs neck if he’s on the roster beyond his year. Now, he has at least some miniscule value that can be exploited.
So:
1. Ichiro
2. Ibanez
3. Matsui
4. Dunn
5. Johjima
6. Beltre
7. Sexson
8. Lopez
9. Betancourt
Crappy lefty/righty lineup but we’re keeping Hargrove out of the equation, right?
Ummmmmmmmmmmmmm…..why in the world would you trade your only real starter, sans Felix….who’s also a lefty……for TWO OUTFIELDERS?
Don’t we have enough? Jones needs a place to play. Wlad will need a spot.
It’s not our outfield offense that’s hurting us. It’s starting pitching…….of which you want to trade something we can’t easily replace. Not only that, you trade our ONLY minor league pitcher who’s close to being ready in your first deal. You must be content with the thought that Weaver can come back and fill that hole for Washburn.
Outfielders are one of the easiest positions to fill. You don’t trade starting pitching unless you’re deep in it…..which the Mariners aren’t.
Personally…..I can live with Vidro and Washburn……more so that I can Dunn and Matsui. Ask Texas how much fun it is to lose 10-8.
What about going after one of Detroit’s starters? I know they need to find a spot for Andrew Miller, so what about taking a run at Bonderman? I know he just signed a big contract, but we might be able to pry him away. I’d offer Guillen, Rob Johnson (They need an heir apparent to Pudge), Matt Tuiasosopo (Brandon Inge stinks) and a solid pitching prospect (Nate Adock? Feierabend? Thomas?).
I would then try to fill Guillen’s spot by trading for Junior. I know people probably don’t like that, but I agree with the others than have proposed that idea. If we agreed to eat all of his contract it might not take much to get him. Maybe they’d take Ho Ramariez and a prospect.
I agree, the M’s are a much better team, and are definitely the closest they have been to being a contender since 2003.
What would put them over the top in 2007? Good question, and I don’t see any realistic, immediate answers via the trade route in 2007 that would help them get much better than they are right now. The late signing of Weaver took up most of the petty cash that would have been better used at the deadline.
When it comes to the trade route the M’s are patsies under Bavasi who have gotten fleeced in almost every single trade, and most of the free agent aquisitions. We don’t have a lot of excess talent to trade in upper minors, or the enotire system for theat matter, and I would rather keep it then throw it away in 2007. I think the best moves for the Mariner’s are going to be the ones they don’t make.
What do we need?
1. We need another starter, Weaver, and Ramirez won’t cut it, and Batista has been umi,pressive. Baek has moved in to the #3 role, but is that smoke, and mirrors, or a reality that will continue through