The Seattle Mariners have some pretty good pitchers in their organization… but Jeff Weaver isn’t one of them.
While Weaver wastes decent stuff more than any starter in the game today, the M’s could be building toward a system full of young arms, including a couple of potential frontline starters and polished impact relievers.
After the 21-year-old Hernandez, the organization boasts of quality power arms in Last June’s second and third round picks, Chris Tillman and Tony Butler.
The left-handed Butler had made two appearances, one in relief as well as one start, spanning 6 1/3 innings. He’s allowed just three hits and an earned run while striking out seven, though his six walks are certainly a concern.
Butler has sat 90-92 with the fastball but has been struggling a bit with his release point. It’s nothing alarming, it’s very early and it’s only two outings. His curve ball and fastball are enough to get him trhough both A-ball stops, as long he throws them for strikes consistently.
Tillman has been spectacular in his two starts, and was at his best Wednesday afternoon when the 19-year-old went 5 2/3 innings yielding just two hits and walk while striking out eight. On the year Tillman has posted a 15-1 K/BB ratio in 9 2/3 innings of work.
Ryan Feierabend is all of 21 years old, but has handled the PCL thus far and has had decent command of his three best pitches in each of his three starts.  He’s allowed 18 hits in his 16 1/3 innings, but has yet to allow a long ball.
The lefty has issued eight walks but the 15 strikeouts counter that just fine, and in the end Feierabend has the best present command of any pitching prospect in the system.
He’s Only Seventeen: Brett Christopherson, who covers the Wisconsin Timber Rattlers for the Appleton Post-Crescent, has a piece up about shortstop Carlos Triunfel, (pronounced (tree-un-fel), in today’s sports section. If you read into it far enough, you’ll see a familiar name sharing his opinion with Christopherson.
It’s a solid read and Rattlers hitting guru Dana Williams has some fairly interesting quotes to swallow up. Triunfel has yet to get an extra-base hit but Williams is right - he’s clearly not overmatched in full-season ball - by any stretch.
It’s still of my belief that Triunfel won’t stick at short, based more on the likelihood that his bat is so far ahead of his defense that he could reach the majors much quicker if he was at second base or in center field. He’s had his struggles in the field so far, but it’s much too early to make any judgments from the first two weeks of the season.
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would 3B be a possible destination for Triunfel?
with betancourt at short, lopez at second, jones in center, clement at catcher and felix, butler, tillman, morrow in the rotation….thats gonna be a pretty darn good team
If Triunfel is a true SS he is the most athletic on the field meaning he can play any position. So 3B would be one if it was this case.
Triunfel needs a nickname, how about The Golden Truffle?
It is tough to predict where he will end up because he is 17, and still has some growing to do.
I would assume that 3B and 2B would be fairly easy transitions for him. And if his bat is as plus as I keep hearing, either corner outfield spot would be good.
“the Golden Truffle”?
i don’t get it.
I was thinking more along the lines of “el Nino”…he’s young and he’s got power ;)
Triunfel needs a nickname, how about The Golden Truffle?
Hmm. Just as long as you don’t use “Money Tree”, anything might work…
Speaking of pitching, it seems Brandon Morrow will make his starting debut on Monday. In Texas.
The last time he threw more than 3 innings was in College.
Oh boy.
A contact of mine who saw Triunfel before he signed in the DR said that he felt the kid would be more suited for 2B down the line. From what I’m hearing elsewhere about his frame/likely development, that seems like a pretty good bet for his final destination.
He’ll be a SS for the next couple years at least, though.
Goose,
Where did you hear that Morrow was starting on Monday? If that’s really true, I don’t like that at all!
I think they should just send him to AAA and start stretching him out.
“Speaking of pitching, it seems Brandon Morrow will make his starting debut on Monday. In Texas.
The last time he threw more than 3 innings was in College.
Oh boy.”
Please tell me that’s a joke. It is freakin’ insane to expect Morrow to go out there and do anything good for the team. Are they not content with just one arm injury?
It’s been posted on ussmariner.com. Also stated that O’ Flaherty is called up to replace Felix who is being placed on the DL.
Churchill also passed it on to KJR, at least that’s what they are saying
The M’s made this decision before yesterday’s game. Morrow starting is better than Morrow relieving - at any level.
I dont know if you are correct but why throw the lamb to the wolves?The guy hasnt gone more then 3 innings in a year and the one thing everyone is forgetting it kills your bullpen for the whole series oops i gues they forgot about that>?Sometimes if a young pitcher gets shelled he gets beat up mentally also im not saying this is gonna happen but there is a possibilty.Just start baek and let morrow go to A ball are AA where he really belongs and get his arm stretched out so he can be able to survive.Lets say he goes 4 innings he cant get a win but he can get a loss if that makes sense to you?This sounds like another desperate move by Bavasi no surprise here!
The Golden Truffle doesn’t mean much, just like most nicknames don’t mean much. It’s simply a double-hyperbole or a metaphor and a hyperbole. Essentially, Golden is a normal way to describe a very promising prospects (as in a golden future, etc.) and Truffle is a very valuable delicacy, comparable in price to gold. Why Truffle, first of all, because the name is similar in spelling and slightly similar in pronunciation to Triunfel. Really, there is no reason to call him that except for those things, I don’t think Carlos has a particular craving for truffles … or gold for that matter, but I’m sick of nicknames like Shiggy, Nelly, Yuni, Yu-Bet etc. etc. The Golden Truffle is just a way of saying he is a really exciting prospect and his names is close enough to Truffle to use that too.
Whatever happened to “Biscuit Pants” Gehrig, “Senor Smoke”, “The Penguin”, “Death to Flying Things”, “The Knight Of Kennett Square”. Those were great nicknames.
I don’t give a rats rear that Morrow may only go four and can get the loss but not get the win… he’s not a fragile-minded 18-year-old kid that speaks a different language than 23 of the other team members and the entire coaching staff.
The concern of him only being able to go 4 or 5 is legit though, because it could wear the pen thin… but there are ways around that, too.
If Morrow goes four and Woods goes, say 2 more and O’Flaherty/White/Reitsma/Putz/Mateo go the other three, are they really screwed? doesn’t seems so…
But if they use someone and he’s unavailable for two days, it’s not that tough to swap Woods out for Green or Huber, and the effectiveness drop isn’t that ridiculous.
The issue here is development, nothing else.
Was Baek scheduled to be tonight’s starter?
So your saying he is a tough minded 22 year old with a grand total of 18 whopping innings?Think about that and a grand total of 3 above A ball!!Just send the guy out and dont ruin him by trying to save your job bill.Thats all im getting at!If morrow went 4 which he hasnt in over a year what does it accomplish?I think we all agree the kid needs seasoning and innings like all the other teams are doing with there prospects.If sea biscut keeps dominating the coast league im sure he will be up in SF very quickly but he is dominating and has proven that he aint no joke and he has earned it .Thats all i would like to see is a little success in the minors.
What does his pro experience have to do with his mental makeup? NOT A THING.
You don’t have to be a personnel guru to know that.
My issue with this is about development. He needs at least a year…
Sadly, he’s not getting it.
I agree but how do you are any of us no his personal makeup?Because the mariners say its good?Well they should say its good because they chose him 5th in the country and i think it was a good pick.I agree with you completley on needing innings.I think pro innings have alot to do with makeup.Some guys wilt in front of 30 thousand fans and others get better underneath the pressure of playing in the majors.We have all seen phenoms come and go who couldnt deal with the pressure.Why is Morrow in the game now isnt this where mateo should pitch?There is a huge diffrence between pitching in front of 2500 at cheney and 40 thousand at the safe in my humble opinion.
How about because the five teams that drafted around him say that in him… it’s not hard to see whether a 22-year-old is fragile or not.
One start isn’t going to ruin the typical college draftee.
There is a huge diffrence between pitching in front of 2500 at cheney…
There’s 2500 in Cheney? Really? Maybe on hot weather Fridays and around the 4th-of-July. Most nights, you’re lucky to see 1000…
;-)
Since Morrow pitched today, I think it’s safe to say he isn’t starting on Monday.
Maybe Baek then.
The crowd size is about pressure. Has nothing to do with anything else.
Morrow has pitched in front of more people than Felix had prior to his debut at 19 years old two years ago.
Why is it different? For that particular point, it’s not different.
The difference overall is that Felix was ready for it and Morrow is not.
Morrow isn’t ready to go six or more innings physically, his command and change still need work and he may or may not be ready mentally and emotionally — but the first two are more than enough.
I’m not sure Morrow still isn’t starting pretty soon here, though I’d be surprised if it’s Monday now.
Jason Mackintosh started in Tacoma tonight in Baek’s spot which tells me Baek is being pushed back anywhere from one to three days so he can make at least one start with the M’s.
I wasn’t at Cheney tonight, so if Baek got hurt or something I wouldn’t know, but there was no word of that up through this afternoon.
Saturday: Ramirez
Sunday: Weaver
Monday: Baek
Tuesday: Morrow?
Wednesday: Washburn
Thursday: Batista
If Morrow or Baek doesn’t go at all, everyone else pitches on regular rest. If both make starts between now and Tuesday, everyone else is pushed back a day.
What I’m worried about is whether or not, not being streched out is going to lead to injury for Morrow.
If he goes from 30 pitches to 90 pitches, maybe.
But he’d have been on a strict count, for sure.
i actually want to see Morrow start..it shows that they still believe hes a starter
but..since Baek was pulled from his start it looks like he’ll get the call
why hasnt Kalian Sams played in a game in a while?
Sams is on the 7-day DL… not sure what it is, but it’s not serious, apparently.
When is being a fan of a team not fun anymore? It was impossible to describe such a set of circumstances just 3 years ago. In the midst of one of the worst Mariners seasons to come along in a while and with the sweet aftertaste of 90-win seasons still percolating through the taste buds on our tongue, we still found joy in watching Mariners baseball. We second-guessed Melvin and bashed on the front office and dreamed of lavish trades and draft picks and prospects that would swing us off our feet and whisk away the ugly duckling to a magical kingdom of the baseball post-season.
Even in a state of disappointment and grief, we were able to cherish the last at bats of Edgar, the first inklings of Raul’s resurrection, the surprising and welcome burst of Madritsche and who could forget the time Bucky-mania spread throughout Mariners fandom.
Mariners fans weren’t happy, they were mad. They wanted to know how a team could turn old in an off-season. They wanted to know how a rotation of golden arms and savvy veterans could disintegrate into a batch of spastic baboons hurling ball-shaped objects in the vicinity of the home plate. They wanted to know how a gold glove, silver slugger, all-decade 2nd baseman in the prime of his career could become a replacement level player in front of their eyes. Fans were pissed that a World Series hero with swiss cheese credentials and a has-been shortstop failed to pan out into actual contributors.
The fans were mad, bristling with indignation for anyone who would step in front of their cross-hairs. Lincoln? Pow. Melvin? Bam. Armstrong? Boom. Moose? You’re dead to me!
Yet through all that hatred and aggression, every evening or afternoon that a Mariners game was on, we would diligently tune in to watch the team attempt a win. And we would root for the team to win, to show what it has, because maybe, juuust maybe, Spiezio can pan out, Aurilia can find his old self, Boone can hit without the juice and the staff can become a Disney movie. It didn’t happen. There are no fairy tales in baseball. But when I remember that year, I don’t remember ever saying to myself: “I hope we lose today, just to spite Hargrove/Bavasi/FO.” That is the type of apathy I feel now. Apart from a mandatory day of jubilation every fifth day (now postponed) I have no rooting interest in the Mariners. I root for Chris Snelling on a daily basis, hell I even root for Alex Rodriguez more than I do for 70% of our hitting lineup. I have no connection to the roster, they are nothing more than a combination of faceless mercenaries hired by a nameless front office to perform a meaningless, automatic duty of finishing out the season with a record somewhere north of 20-142.
What’s worse, is that after Hargrove is fired and even if Bavasi is let go too, I find it difficult to picture a future in which this apathy for the hometown team can change into joy again. If I try, I picture Yuni grabbing the ball deep in the hole, twisting his body and throwing a laser to the faceless first baseman who then throws the ball around the infield to Clement to Lopez to Beltre in warm-up fashion. I pause, because I don’t know if those faces would truly make me a happier, joyful Mariners fan. I have no attachments to Clement or Lopez or Beltre. And for that matter, no Mariners position prospects, except for Halman and Triunfel have captured my imagination. And so, as I glance into the murky future of Mariners baseball, I am faced with nothing but a deep, barren, ravenous sorrow that corrodes my faith in baseball.
PS: Seriously, Moose Must Die.
Willmore,
I really feel what you’re saying. Specifically, this year is the first time I’ve been tempted to root for us to lose, just so Hargrove and Bavasi get fired. And I like to see Mateo and Weaver get bombed, for example, because I think only through total failure will any change happen. It’s also the first time where I’ve been so angry with their off-season moves that I find myself taking vindictive pleasure in people failing. That’s messed up.
I’d disagree with your long-term assessment, though, that the players of the future are guys you “won’t feel any connection to.” I think that comes with time, and, especially, success. If we were fielding a 90 win team, and you were watching Lopez and Yuni flash their skills at many an exciting game, I think the love would flow pretty quickly.
But yeah, it’s a lame position for a fan to be in, to be torn between rooting for your team and rooting against the people busily destroying it.
Whats the state of the overall Mariners fanbase? Do alot of people feel this way? I’m from nowhere near Seattle so it’s hard for me to tell.
But hey, I know how you two guys feel. I consider myself the most rabid M’s fan from far away from Seattle. Now, I want to see Vidro fail so the front office will say “hmmmm, maybe we were a bunch of jackasses for trading good prospects for an aging veteran with bum knees!” That, and don’t get me started on Batista! It’s all so sad! The thing that bugs me most of all is the way Morrow is being handled. On one hand, failure could teach the FO a lesson but a golden arm like that, I don’t want Morrow hurt. His stuff is fusion compared to everyone else not named Felix in the M’s rotation which is where he belongs.
Same situation here. Torn between rooting for (habit) and rooting against (anger, apathy).
As for connection to the players, there are a few things required to make that happen. They’d have to BE Mariners for a long enough time to forge the connection, they’d have to be regular Mariners (not bench guys) - both those conditions means they have to be good, and they have to be something else I don’t know quite how to describe… approachable? likable?
I know many of us recognize that Ichiro is pretty awesome in a lot of ways, but he’s been here way more years now than Cammy was and yet in no way can begin to touch the love fans felt for Cammy. With Edgar, Buhner, Dan - they had such serious history. With Jamie, it was about the community service and the steady performance year in year out and his obvious leadership on the team. Look at this year’s team and this stuff seems absent - the joy in play, the leadership, the history.
As for the future, it’s going to take a while to build those connections which will only happen IF the players are around long enough or IF we have somebody truly magical like a Cammy, who can share his complete joy and gratitude at being on that field with the fans. Those guys are rare, but as a fan, it’s those guys with serious heart (like Tek in Boston) that you can really tie yourself to.
Oh man, this feels like a “Forlorn M’s Fan Support Group” meeting. I also go through the same conflicts regarding the team on a daily basis. The optimistic fan in me wants them to win and hopes that maybe everything will fall into place ala 2001. But the realist in me knows that the longterm fortunes of this team should not rest in the hands of Hargrove, or players like Mateo, Vidro, and Weaver.
This reminds me of how I felt towards the conclusion of this past Sonics season. I felt compelled to root against them so that they could have more lottery balls in the upcoming draft. I felt terrible for doing it, like a complete traitor. But it’s another situation where they need help in the long term and short term success is only going to fool the front office into thinking it’s on the right path currently.
All I can offer to everyone is to try and be patient.. I was an M’s fan in the “dark ages” (pre-1995) and it was hell. Those golden years (1995 and 2001 in particular) made it all the more rewarding.
I can only assure you that it’s my opinion that there is plenty of talent at and below the big league levels to build a championship contender in Seattle.
But it has to be handled properly and never wasted.
Golden years my ass.
Golden years have World Championships attached to them. 95 and 01 were good years, nothing more.
I stopped watching today’s game after the first, and I’m not gonna bother with tommorrow. At least until Felix comes back, I think I’m gonna spend most of my baseball time watching the D-Backs, and paying attention to Jones/Clement/Butler/Tillman/Triunfel/Tui/Wlad/ect. in the minors.
This shit has gotten old. I’m tired of the excuses and the bullshit. I could give a rats ass if they are fighting to keep it close. Win or I don’t give a fuck anymore.
Well, if a World Championship is your criteria for being happy with a season, then you’re liable to be disappointed the majority of the time (regardless of whatever team you might choose to follow).
A team typically wins a championship in
sorry, html ate the rest of my last post..
A team typically wins a championship in less than 5% of their seasons played. Even the Yankees with their 26 titles have won a title in less than 25% of the years that they played. And that’s with them having a payroll that is larger than the GNP of a third-world country.
I understand and can appreciate the frustrations that you feel. But, I personally won’t allow that to keep me from looking back fondly at 1995 and 2001 regardless of the end result.
What’s up with Wlad?
Eric looked really good tonight
The Stupidity of one Mike Hargrove has gotten out of hand, it really has. It’s not new, he did the same crap last year, but how can one individual be so narrow-minded about how to handle a pitching staff?
I have to believe that Raffy Chaves is cringing… he’s never shown any track record of consisently bad pitching until now, so there is really only one explanation — bad pitchers and his manager’s poor use of them.
While I want to rip Grover for Mateo again tonight, it’s Bavasi’s fault on that one just as much. It wasn’t a close game when Julio came in and surrendered what proved to be the run that decided the game, but Mateo is one of three arms that shouldn’t even be here, along with Weaver and Sean White.
Swap out White for Huber (who cares if you lose him back to ATL), find a way to shed Mateo and DFA Weaver… and so on.
The 12-man staff should look as follows:
SPs - Felix (DL), Washburn, Ramirez, Batista, Baek (for Felix), Feierabend (for Weaver).
RPs - Putz, Reitsma, Sherrill, O’Flaherty, Woods, Huber and Justin Lehr.
When Felix comes back, send Lehr back to Tacoma and use Baek in the pen, or send Feier back to Tacoma and keep Lehr in the pen.
Feierabend only threw 53 pitches over three frames tonight, too. He may be getting the call, too.
The M’s may be giving Baek a start on Monday and Feier a start on Tuesday or Wednesday.
I’ve followed this site for a year or two but have never posted. I come here daily because I am an avid M’s fan and love to follow the teams prosects.
In the early 90’s I worked for one of the Mariners farm teams as an official scorekeeper for the likes of Raul Ibanez, Derek Lowe, Ryan Franklin and (hold your breath) Arquimedez Pozo.
Most M’s games are on at least one of my TV’s and the portable radio in the backyard. I think Shannon Dreyer is the hottest chick in radio and I have never seen a picture of her.
I mention this not to show how cool I am but only to exhibit the time and effort I have invested in these guys (although I know it fails in comparison to the time JC and others here have spent following the team.)
I’m done.
My frustration with this team has past its peak. Why can’t someone get a hit when it means something? Why can’t any free agent pan out? Why do most (except Felix, all) pitching prospects fail?
When will someone see the light and can Bavasi, Hargrove etc. and start over? Do we need Guillen, Ritchie, Washburn, Batista, Weaver, Beltre, Mateo and even Ichiro to lose 90 games?
I will follow a team that has a plan to win. Maybe not now, but 2 or 3 years down the road. I will not follow a team whose only goal is to please the 12 year old girl in the stands wearing the just-purchased Ichiro jersey.
Thanks for your time.
Ahh, don’t leave, JJ. If you do, you let Chucky and Howie beat you. Can’t do that.
Stay strong until they are all replaced with more competent people, and we shouldn’t have to wait long for Hargrove, and probably not for Bavasi’s departure either.
Grover is on a week-to-week watch…
I’ll set the over-under for July 1, but with each bafoon-esque move, that slides up a day or two.
By this time next week, that over-under betting line could be May 15.
Oh hell no. I’ll never leave. I can’t. I’ve met too many kickass people over the last few years because of the Mariners to leave. Oh and I guess, the whole team being burned into my mind the last 13 years has something to do with that to.
You’re right. I’ll never leave i guess. It just gets so frustrating some times. And it’s not the losing. It’s the feeling that they have no idea what they’re doing. And I would sure miss that game on the radio tomorrow as I’m putzing around the yard.
Mowing down the grass eh?
i see where JJ is coming from…its not the losing thats frustrating me…its the dumb moves and decisions hargrove and bavasi are making…if the had a great GM like Billy Beane and a manager like Bobby Cox, Pinella, or someone of that caliber…i would be happy
and the next yr i dont care if the team won 100 games or 70….because its a new beginning
and i like the high draft picks LOL
so that shows some promise for the future with top prospects if Bavasi doesnt trade them away for some like Spezio.
And Hargrove directly costs us another game via Julio Mateo. What is his infatuation with this guy? Everytime he does the same thing…comes in with men on and “only” gives up one run. Well one run that is charged to him, he also lets everyone on base come around to score. Every starter that gets yanked for Julio with men on has to be thinking “great! theres another 2 earned runs that’ll be charged to me!” If Hargrove had put in almost anyone else and they actually stopped the bleeding 6 runs would have been enough. Anyone else thinks there is a chance Hargrove is better on games?
Pat,
I’m not sure we can blame Hargrove for the Mateo thing this time. If a pitcher is on the roster, he has to be used sometime and if not that early in the game in a 4-0 score… when?
Sure, he probably shouldn’t even be on the club - he’s terrible… just awful. But it’s either Mateo or Sean White, and to be honest, White isn’t any better and we all know that.
Weaver, Mateo and White should be sent packing.
Where is Triunfel goin’?
His numbers at bat are more and more impressive, is shortstop his really best position? Isn’t the case to make the switch as D’back have done with Justin Upton?